What is considered good shooting?

[tddeangelo]

So, I'm improving with my flintlock, feeling a bit better with it, and wondering---- for, say, 50 and 100 yards, what is considered "good shooting" offhand with a flintlock?

Thanks!

[RichG]

hitting what your shooting at

[smylee grouch]

10s on the NMLRA 6 bull target

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

group wise with actual HUNTING position shooting, example, shooting sticks, log,tree branch. I'd want at least 4" group.

[SCLoyalist]

---- for, say, 50 and 100 yards, what is considered "good shooting" offhand with a flintlock?

That question lends itself to all sorts of answers.    

For paper target shooting, some possible benchmarks of 'good' are all 5 shots in the black at 50 yds with the 6 bull target, or all 5 shots touching in the big bull target.    For 100 yds, all 5 shots in the black is achievable (or at least scores in the range of 40 or more out of 50).

Good shooting with a flinter could include having the gun tuned to where you're happy with the ignition (i.e., no hangfires or misfires), or when you have a slow fire, your technique allows you to hold steady and not miss what you were aiming at.    You can start feeling kinda good about
your flint shooting when you don't feel a bit disadvantaged shooting against percussion guns.

[EC121]

My personal goal(not always the reality was always to stay in the black on the National Agg. targets.  That would be a score of at least 160.  That means a 40 average minimum on all four targets.  If one could get over 160, he could place in almost any contest.  If you stay in the black, there will also be nines and tens.

[bob in the woods]

My best off hand  score was 50 4 x  and I've done it twice . Not bad for around 7000 shots     Off the bench is a different story. More than a few 50's have come my way.  If I know the rifle is capable of that, it builds confidence  . Off hand I always am happy to shoot 45  and up at 50 yards . At 100 yds, keeping them in the black is good i.e. 40 and up.  Wind enters into the picture much more at that range. For hunting, I've never taken an off hand shot with my muzzleloaders past 60 yds. Like the man said..hitting what you shoot at is the name of the game.
I try and use some kind of rest, whether it be a tree or whatever.  Hunting is different from target shooting and it depends on the size of the animal.  i.e. the kill zone.  Example…my max. range  limit for a bear with my 10 bore is 50 yds,, but I would take a shot on a moose at 100 yds or even a bit more. 

[galamb]

If I can shoot 2" @ 50 which should translate into 4" @ 100 that is "bambi accurate" which is good enough for me.

It's all perspective...

[ken]

Good shooting is improvement. If you and your rifle are getting better at what you want to hit , that is good shooting.  ken

[moleeyes36]

Good shooting is improvement. If you and your rifle are getting better at what you want to hit , that is good shooting.  ken

Exactly right! 

Mole Eyes

[PPatch]

Good shooting is improvement. If you and your rifle are getting better at what you want to hit , that is good shooting.  ken

This is very true. You will know when you're achieving your best when you are consistently hitting your mark at those distances. With practice you will develop the ability to "call your shot" before the ball even hits the target. This means you have shot that particular gun to the point you know it and yourself well enough to be able to know where you'll hit the moment the ball leaves the muzzle. You will know if the ball strike will be dead on, upper left or right etc. of where you aimed. At that point you will have developed confidence in shooting that gun, will be able to adjust your point of aim for conditions such as windage and distance (Ky windage) without thinking about it.

With shooting practice practice practice combined with proper technique will get you there, in the zone with that weapon. You will know when you have arrived there because your confidence with that gun is firm. Pay attention to consistent loading of the gun, your off-hand hold, breathing and trigger pull along with following through on each shot.

Good shooting! Enjoy the process.

dave

[Daryl]

I have seen Taylor put 5 consecutive offhand shots from a .50 Flinter, at 100 meters, into a group you could cover with a tea cup's rim. That was back when we could actually see the sights well.  That is good shooting - match winning shooting. He's still doing it, @!*%?&, although perhaps not quite as consistently.

Today, to get consistent hits on our gong targets at 100 yards or meters offhand shooting, is the goal.

[gunmaker]

Eatting what you shot........

[retired fella]

consistency, always striving for better and in this weather ...dry fire...dry fire...dry fire.  I do this 3-4 times a week.  Helps me.  Just sayin"

[zimmerstutzen]

Good shooting is all relative.
A beginner hitting a paper plate at 25 yds is good.
A seasoned offhand match shooter getting a 5 shot group under a half dollar is good shooting.  A bench shooter getting a 5 shot group under 9/16 inch at 100 yds is good shooting.

Personally, it is life long effort to remove each of the inconsistencies and variable that detract from one hole groups.

[hanshi]

I think RichG said it best but perhaps did not go far enough.  Hitting what you're shooting at consistently  is a good definition for accuracy among hunters and recreational shooters.  This definition will also work as one's skill grows.

For competitive shooters good shooting will be defined by type of match, target and rifle/gun.  Regardless, the criteria for this group is much more stringent.

[Old Ford2]

To me, in my years now, is to get the powder in before the ball. And when all that is done with, remove the ramrod before you touch her off.
That is a good start!
Now hitting what you're aiming at is another goal. ( I don't set my goals too high anymore     )
Getting the klatch lock to fire most of the time is good also.
When all those ducks are in a row, I can usually do pretty good.
Off hand keeping shot shells dancing at a hundred yards is relatively common.
That is good shooting for me.
Fred

[LH]

All good answers.  I'd add that if you take up competitive shooting and get to the level that EC121 talked about,  start taking notes.  In fact, take notes from the get-go.  Above the 160 level,  it gets harder to see improvement.  Notes will help that.  And we all shoot "against ourselves"  so no matter what is good for you,  NEVER feel ashamed or shy about shooting in a match.  The only shots you can control are yours.  What everybody else does is out of your control so should not be in your thoughts while you are shooting.  One of my pet peeves is hearing somebody say "I'm not going to Friendship (or any match) because I know I couldn't win up there"  That aint right and I think that if a person has the attitude that they'll only shoot if they can win,  they're missing the whole fun of it. Nobody wins every time and the game starts over every day.  Look forward to improving and the fun of competitive shooting will last forever.

[tddeangelo]

Thanks to everyone for the replies!

I really have next to no idea what the scores mean, as I haven't even looked at matches yet. There are some local shoots I can attend and should, so I will start looking into that. Was just sort of wondering what people consider "good", as in 5 shots in 6" at 50 yards is "good", "mediocre" or "better try again," lol. Something like that. I'm just stoked that I'm shooting into deer-sized vitals at 50 yard offhand, consistently. That's notable improvement for me for the time being, but I want to see where this rifle and I can go. I think we can do better.

[Dan]

This is fairly average for me. Offhand, 50.  Good enough for what I do.

[little joe]

This is fairly average for me. Offhand, 50.  Good enough for what I do.

How big is the red?

[Candle Snuffer]

This was back in July during a quick new front sight - sight in.  I eventually got the group to the center and pretty much can carry the 9 Ring with of course a flyer mixed in a lot of times.  But what the heck, flintlocks are sure fun!   By the way, this is a TQ-4 NRA 100 Yard target.

[Dan]

This is fairly average for me. Offhand, 50.  Good enough for what I do.

How big is the red?

I may be off a little as the targets are at a different location, but I believe the inner oval is in the range of 2.5" high and 1.75" wide.  Maybe 3"x2"? Something along that line.  Those be .45 caliber holes, maybe it can be worked out from the pic?

[Daryl]

This target has 4 groups on it.  The top left group, is an offhand group of the load that shot the centre group off the bench. The to right group is an offhand group of the load that shot the bottom right group off the bench.  What I was attempting to do, was to show the enlargement of a group when using a less accurate load. The mould is a Lyman DC .400" mould. The hole closest to the hinge pin, casts the oblong ball.

The top left and centre bull groups were shot with .400" x .440" balls and a .215" thick patch. I lost track of the number of shots on the top left target and put 6 probably, but maybe 7 into that group.  Talking to people while shooting and loading can be distracting.  The rest are all 5 shot groups.

I do not know why I listed the ball diameters as .395" on the left & centre bull targets - It's a misprint - my fault - sorry for any confusion this may have caused.  I just noticed this error. I actually used the .400" X .400" balls from the front cavity of the Lyman DC mould.
My .395" SC Lyman mould actually casts .398" x .397" in dead soft lead which was Hospital X-ray wall sheeting. It's the purest lead I've seen since 1972.

The top right and bottom right groups were shot with .400" X .392" out of round (oblong) balls and .0200" patch, other wise the same load. I do not think the change in patch thickness of .00075 would make that much difference, but attribute the loss in accuracy to the out of round balls.  It appears I ran out of the .0215" ticking and subbed in 8 ounce denim.

The bore of this .40 cal. Goodoien rifle barrel is .398". The first load (best accuracy) had 12 1/2 thousandth's compression in the bottom of each groove, more on the lands, of course.  The second, looser load on the .392" side, had from  11 thousandth's compression to .007" compression per side with the oblong ball.
 
All shooting was at 50 yards.

[Daryl]

In this picture, I am showing the difference in accuracy that can be expected between shooting offhand with a fairly accurate load  and shooting offhand shooting with an inaccurate load.

We oft see in print here and in other forums, "since I'm shooting offhand, it doesn't matter if the load is accurate or not."  This just isn't so.  The bigger your group off a rest, the larger it will be offhand as the rifle's accuracy potential is added to YOUR potential for the overall group size that results.

You will shoot much more accurately offhand, or at least have the potential to shoot much more accurately, with loads that are accurate off the bench, than you will with an inaccurate load.

As far as decent shooting offhand at 50yards, the top left is about as good as I could do a few years back. It is highly unlikely I can do that well today.  I've not shoot an offhand bullseye target at 50yards for a long time. This is something that requires practice.   Note that that 50 yard offhand group is almost as good, or as good as the bench group with the poorer shooting load.

Incidentally, this target was with my longrifle, which has a factory, non-twigged Dickert L&R lock. It's a very good sparker. The barrel was a 42" Goodioen .40 calibre "match" barrel.