Possible Rev War Militia Fowler/Musket?

[Buckingham]

I recently saw this gun for sale in a local shop (just last week) and after seeing Ken Gahagan's recent addition to the Contemporary Maker's Gun Blog for a New England Militia Musket/Fowler, I am wondering if this gun may be of similar provenance.

It is clearly a .70 Caliber smoothbore and appears to be made using mostly Brown Bess musket parts. The full stock is a very nice black walnut and it contains (what appears to my neophyte eyes) to be a 46 inch Brown Bess barrel with visible British proofs at the breech. The sights have unfortunately been smoothed down to barrel level. Fine "Galton/1762" Lock with visible crown and British Broad Arrow markings. The store owner has told me that the musket has been converted to percussion by adding a drum bolster to the barrel and a flat mule ear hammer to the lock, and he showed me where the percussion cone has been chipped off but lock works well. The trigger guard is brass with raised decoration. Ram rod pipes appear to be off a Brown Bess as well, based on pictures I have seen.

What really excites me is that the two screw side plate is a raised and rounded, and this looks different from the Brown Bess sideplates I have seen that were Rev War era, so I am wondering if this is possibly an even earlier model?  The brass buttplate is the form of the Brown Bess but not raised so the store owners assumes it is an American copy. Ash ramrod appears to be original with a horn tip. I am really curious to know if this may have been a Rev War era militia piece that may have been converted to percussion for further use on the farm later on in the 1800s.

Any opinions would be gratefully appreciated!

[Luke MacGillie]

Farmer and Galton were mostly involved in the African gun trade vice North America,  but did supply a few muskets to the Colony of Virginia prior to the F&I war. 

The fact that a surviving weapon is for sale here in the North America is not evidence of North American use.  Euro dealers figured out real quick that they could make a whole lot of money selling old stuff at places like the Baltimore Antique Arms show. One only has to look at all the euro plug bayonets that fill the Bicentennial era books on arms of the Revolution, and then look at the almost total lack of evidence from archaeology reports. 

[JV Puleo]

I'd say a commercial gun made from condemned parts. The India pattern sideplate puts it well after the Revolution regardless of the date on the lock. Basically, it was a cheap gun made from used parts.

[Hungry Horse]

 A lot of post revolution English military guns, were sold in South America, and some were used by Santa Anna at the Alamo.

               Hungry Horse

[Buckingham]

Thanks so much to all for the feedback; I thought the black walnut stock was meaningful as far as establishing provenance, but I am happy to learn what you all chose to share.  The store owner did say that it was "acquired locally" here in the Shenandoah Valley area, but I never did get more information than that.

Thanks again!

[Hungry Horse]

 During the revolution there was a time when Pennsylvania gunsmiths were forbidden to make rifles. Gunsmiths used salvaged parts, along with shop made parts, and incorporated them into serviceable muskets. So if the stock wood is indeed American walnut, and some of the hardware appears to be shop made, this may be one of those muskets. That being said, it is hard to prove, and probably won't add much value to the gun.

                  Hungry Horse

[E.vonAschwege]

Hey Buckingham - I've nothing new to add, the others have already pointed out that the sideplate is recycled from an India pattern Bess, which means it can't  be rev-war period.  Still, it's a very nice musket assembled with some earlier Bess parts, like the barrel, lock, and triggerguard.  It's got nice lines, which helps its value regardless of its era, and makes it more attractive than a lot of cobbled together muskets of the same period.  
-Eric

[debnal]

Could the sideplate be a 1779-S type? Don't know the answer to this but- is there a difference in the screw to screw distance on a 1779-S sideplate as opposed to a normal third model Bess sideplate?
Al

[smart dog]

Hi Al,
I believe you are correct.  I don't think the components are from an India pattern Bess.  The guard differs from those typically found on India pattern guns.  However, the triggerguard and sideplate match a model 1779S short land pattern musket, a type that was used in North America.

dave

[debnal]

The question I have is- Would a 1762 dated lock screw placement be compatible with an India pattern sideplate, or even a 1779-S sideplate? One other possibility- the sideplate could be a locally made piece.
Al

[E.vonAschwege]

Al, you've got a good eye.  I just picked up an India pattern Bess and measured the sideplate - it's 3 5/8" eye to eye, with 11/16" diameter bolt heads.  Not sure how that compares to the 1779 - S.  The triggerguard and barrel certainly aren't from an India pattern - can't tell what the buttplate looks like.  The shaping of the side panel is not in keeping with the Bess styling - the bevel in the wood above the sideplate continues all the way to the breech, instead of sweeping up to leave a flat shelf for the last 1.5".  That shaping is IMO a later feature than Rev-War period arms.  
-Eric

[Buckingham]

Per e-mailed request from dealer on measurement of the sideplate:

4 3/8 overall-3 5/8 eye to eye.  46 inch barrel.

Am I correct in thinking hat barrel length and the Galton lock are likely from a 1st Long Land Pattern, while the trigger guard and side plate are from a Short Land Pattern?

[longrifle]

Nice looking gun.  

[Buckingham]

Hey Buckingham - I've nothing new to add, the others have already pointed out that the sideplate is recycled from an India pattern Bess, which means it can't  be rev-war period.  Still, it's a very nice musket assembled with some earlier Bess parts, like the barrel, lock, and triggerguard.  It's got nice lines, which helps its value regardless of its era, and makes it more attractive than a lot of cobbled together muskets of the same period.  
-Eric

I really like this gun quite a bit, so thank you for showing a similar inclination.  I plan on using some of the feedback from this thread to discuss possible pricing with the shop proprietor and also take additional pictures soon to post on this thread for any who are interested.

Stay tuned for more, and thank you for your great advice and insight!

[longrifle]

Hope you get it.