Interesting Rifle on Gunbroker - Signed Jacob Kuntz

[Fullstock longrifle]

Thought some of you would enjoy seeing this rifle, the carving is very nice, but the price is a little rich for my blood these days.  By the way, I have no interest or involvement in this auction. Ex Kindig collection.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=462840594

Frank

[rich pierce]

Thanks!

[E.vonAschwege]

Thanks for sharing Frank - I noticed it on GB earlier today and came here to share it as well, you beat me to it!  Looking at this and some of Kuntz's other seemingly early works (full sideplate, germanic style lock, etc.), I see some similarities to Neihart's later work, but not so much Moll and Rupp, particularly when you compare the shaping of the wrist and comb transitions.  It would be fun to lay a few of these earlier Kuntz guns on a table next to some of Neihart's later works for comparison. 
-Eric

[Majorjoel]

Thank you Frank for the heads up about this nice Kuntz rifle! Too bad I dropped my piggy bank down a well and can't seem to fish it back out!    Seller is a friend of mine and surprises me with some of his offerings at auction. I've seen another interesting rifle he had listed at GB. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=461979426

[Tom Currie]

There is a very similiar carved Kuntz rifle on the KRA Lehigh CD. The CD rifle has the more standard Lehigh patchbox finial however.

Eic, I get the Neihardt - Kuntz similaritys. I'd throw John Rupp in with those 2 also. Herman Rupp no so much, the H Rupp rifles, from pictures anyway, appear closer in design to the work of John Moll.

[Buck]

I know this gun and the owner, it's a good gun.
Buck

[Eric Kettenburg]

Jacob apprenticed with Peter Neihart, there is an surviving indenture although it has never been made public for some weird ass (to me) reason.  If I may interject something which I now (personally) accept as more than mere speculation, a piece like this - which could be considered an 'early' Kuntz prior to the Philadelphia years, looks so much like a 'late' Neihart because I am pretty confident that most of those later Neiharts are actually Kuntz rifles regardless of signature.  By the 1810/1811 manufacturers census, Neihart had a very considerable smithing/forging operation (as it was noted) and I suspect (key word here being suspect) that by the time of this census he was more involved as an overseer as opposed to manually being involved in day to day menial tasks.  He was dead by 1813 at 69 y.o.

[Shreckmeister]

Cool that the indenture survives.   Uncool that we can't see an image of it.  Afraid of someone stealing it or enjoys that he can restrict who gets to see it?  I saw an original gunsmith indenture at KRA once.    I wonder how many survive? 

[E.vonAschwege]

Brilliant Eric!  I've long wondered what connection there may have been between the two, but couldn't find anything solid in the books I have on the subject.  The early Kuntz guns and later Neihart guns appear to have so much in common in shaping and carving style, it seems entirely conceivable that there is a connection.  Thanks for sharing,
-Eric

[Buck]

Eric,
Interesting history, thanks for the info.
Buck