Charge compression

[Dan]

Anyone here attempt to incorporate specific charge compression when loading?  If so, how?

[WadePatton]

Don't you have the "Loadmaster Click-O-Matic"? It's a calibrated packing stick extension that operates like a torque-wrench.  It clicks when the preset pressure is achieved.

What?  Oh, I dreamed that up and haven't produced any yet.  Dangit.

I use one single whack with open hand onto starter knob resting on packing stick.  Starter knob has hole to accommodate stick.  I learned that from here.  Superseded my stick bouncing habits.

[Daryl]

I-do as Wade - one whack with my palm on the starter's knob.  When chronographing, I found this gave me the tightest shot to shot velocity strings and was usually 100fps higher speed than merely setting the ball on the powder gentle-like.

[WadePatton]

I-do as Wade - one whack with my palm on the starter's knob.  When chronographing, I found this gave me the tightest shot to shot velocity strings and was usually 100fps higher speed than merely setting the ball on the powder gentle-like.

To be fair, I stole the idea from Daryl for the reasons he lists right there ^.  And it's simple and quick, only requires a starter with a dimple.  Starter is Finisher!

[Dan]

Thanks, had not considered the whack-o-matic approach. 

I have been using a soft seat of the ball on powder then pressing with my index finger as hard as I can. Guessing that around 5-10# of pressure. Velocities have not been measured but seem consistent.

Also have designed a compression rod without the clicker, but with an index plate and pointer based on and calibrated by measured spring tension.  Not planning to market, just something I want for an ancient BP ML target rifle.

[Larry Pletcher]

Steve Chapman and I did an experiment where we attempted to compare what effect variations in load compression had on accuracy. In particular we wanted to see if flint or percussion ignition behaved differently.  Our reason for this was a post of a different forum that flint loads should not be compressed.  

We would like to run the test again adding some additional controls.  I don't expect different results, but like to see how refining methods might affect the test.  The link to our experiment is below.

http://www.blackpowdermag.com/load-compression-and-accuracy/

Regards,
Pletch

PS this topic has been discussed, and this link has been posted here as well.

[Ky-Flinter]

Seems like I remember seeing an ad in Muzzle Blasts a while back for a loading rod that showed loading pressure exerted.  Had some sort of built in scale. 

-Ron

[PPatch]

I try to push the ball/patch combo down the bore until I feel it seat atop the powder charge, I then tap the ball home firmly holding ramrod between my index finger and thumb and tapping once or twice lightly to "ram" it home, gently. No more. I want to know that the ball is setting immediately on top the powder. With experience you learn to be consistent. I pay attention to how hard I "tap" to be consistent.

dave

[Bob Roller]

I try to push the ball/patch combo down the bore until I feel it seat atop the powder charge, I then tap the ball home firmly holding ramrod between my index finger and thumb and tapping once or twice lightly to "ram" it home, gently. No more. I want to know that the ball is setting immediately on top the powder. With experience you learn to be consistent. I pay attention to how hard I "tap" to be consistent.

dave

Dave,
That is/was my method also.Works well and I got some fine groups @ 100 yards and beyond.
The "beyond" was with an Alex Henry barreled Whitworth. Lynton McKenzie had a loading rod
with a compression spring that he used and it worked really well. I thought of making one but
never got a round "Tuit".

Bob Roller

[Daryl]

1st off, I apologize for this oft-posted video which seems to fit a miriad of circumstances dealing with loading and shooting these wonderful rifles.
It shows quite clearly, my method of seating the ball into the muzzle, then  starting it down about 6", then seating it on the powder - I do this exactly (as best I can) the same every time I load.  Velocities are very close, and approximately 100 fps faster that a soft seat.

[Maven]

"Don't you have the "Loadmaster Click-O-Matic"? It's a calibrated packing stick extension that operates like a torque-wrench.  It clicks when the preset pressure is achieved.  What?  Oh, I dreamed that up and haven't produced any yet.  Dangit."

Wade, No, you didn't dream that up, as N & W Rods once offered them (in the 1970's) as did KaDooty more recently.

[Dphariss]

There are variables out the whazzoo here.
First off. If the powder is drop tubed so its uniformly settled. Poured in at a slow rate in a vertical barrel so the barrel acts as a drop tube. Its impossible to put enough pressure on the powder to compress it to any extent. This based on actual testing of drop tubed loads. Significant compression of such a load requires considerable increase in the pressure applied and this requires a mechanical device like a loading or Arbor Press.
Now since most ML shooters just dump in the charge  and the barrel is not vertical its not packed tightly from its fall. As a result it can be packed a little more with some rod pressure.
I don't have all the data but a guild member did a study and found the velocity changes were not significant between light and heavy compression.
But as usual your mileage may vary.

Dan

[Larry Pletcher]

. . . snipped . . . .
I don't have all the data but a guild member did a study and found the velocity changes were not significant between light and heavy compression.
But as usual your mileage may vary.
Dan

I sent all my data to the guild member than Dan mentioned.  This member is a forum member here, and has statistical skills far, far better than mine.  His analysis was a complex one, one that would be better explained by him than me.  I will simply say that increasing compression beyond a modest amount did not seem to be beneficial.

I want to give credit to Joe Sharber for his work on this experiment.  Below is a conclusion drawn from Mr Sharber's analysis.
 
"The final conclusion then, is that we want to have the ball seated firmly on the powder charge as a matter of safety, but beyond that, we can all quit agonizing over trying to use the exact same amount of force to seat the ball.  It simply does not make a detectable difference.". . . Joe Sharber

My complements to Joe - I hope he will clarify any comments I made.

Regards,
Pletch