English Gentleman's Sporting Rifle Photos ?

[davec2]

I have a Chamber kit for an English rifle that I purchased quite some time ago now.  All the inletting and component work is complete but I am looking for options about the final finish work (i.e. engraving of not, checkering, carving, etc.)  So I am looking for any photos / recommendations you guys might have on options for the final configuration on this one.  Again, as with the copy of Jim Kibler's rifle I recently completed, I am trying to get out of my own predilections here and learn something new as I go along.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Dave C

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Do you have a copy of John Schipper's book on engraving?

[davec2]

Taylor,

Yes, I have John's book and I know there are several versions of an English rifle in it.  I also have pictures of a very plain but very elegant rifle built by Steven Alexander.  I have also closely examined the pictures of the William Turvey  rifle the Chambers version was patterned after.  I am just looking for as many options as I can round up.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I do the same thing Dave.  I research every build, perhaps more than necessary.  I find it interesting that you, having established your own beautiful style of engraving, might be looking for other options.  I find myself reluctant to step out on the flimsy limb of my own artistic ability to create carving and engraving of my own, and applaud you and others who can not only get away with it, but master it.

[smart dog]

Hi Dave,
Boy, I'll bet this one will be a beauty.  I attached a photo of shell carving on a pistol I did a while a go.  The unfinished wood shows the cuts better because there is no glare from the finish.  The carving was inspired by a Twigg sporting gun and another by James Freeman.  Rifles often had similar decoration.



Do you have access do a copy of Neal and Back's "Great British Gunmakers 1740-1790"?  It contains excellent photos of period engraving and decoration.  Also, Dave, I have an original London-made fowling gun from the 1760s or 1770s with classic decoration for the time.  Obviously, it is not a rifle but it may provide some ideas.  Do you want me to take some photos and send them by e-mail?

dave

[blienemann]

That is really sweet, Dave - and in walnut, too yet.

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Dave,

I think picking a time frame is important, as decorative styles changed....   also it may help to pick one or two builders of that period and hone in on their work..... some did checkering and others did not.. some did none on earlier guns and did it on later guns...  Obviously it depends on how true to a period you want to be...... If you don't care about a particular period you can just use your artistic abilities and make a contemporary gun with a historic taste...... With your skills you just have too many options!!!    Just do it right!  eh?  

[smart dog]

Hi Bob,
Thank you.  The carving was done for a pair of dueling pistols I made a few years back.
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=8046.0

Dave,
Tim is bang on about styling and period.  The Chamber's English rifle is typical of rifles made between 1730-1760.  During the latter part of that period, lockplates on quality English guns were more often flat, not round faced.  Checkering of any sort would not be common unless added later, which certainly happened.  The Turvey gun in RCA #1 is a good example for the early part of that period.  I will send some photos of a B. Griffen gun (about 1750) from Bailey's book on British military rifles.

dave

[Mike Brooks]

I'd be carefull about posting those photos with out the author's permission....

[smart dog]

Hi Mike,
You are probably right.  I removed them and will send them to Dave by e-mail.

dave

[davec2]

David,

Great tang carving photo....Thanks !!!  And great advice.  I do have a copy of Neal and Back's "Great British Gunmakers 1740-1790" and, even better because of the outstanding color photography, I have a copy of the Christie's auction catalog from November of 2000 (Fine Antique Firearms from the W. Keith Neal Collection).  However, I would also appreciate the photos of the fowler you offered as well. (and the other photos that you have redacted from the ALR site.)

Dr. Tim,

While I am not overly concerned about being spot on a particular period, I do want to learn enough about what was done and when so that I do not wander too far afield in applying my own interpretation on any particular build.

Taylor,

Thanks for the vote of confidence in my engraving style but, personally, I feel that I am still very far out on "the flimsy limb of my own artistic ability" as you so aptly put it.  I like pieces of what I have done but I know it is still greatly lacking in overall cohesiveness.  I am not sure if I am still looking for my own particular style or if I would just like to be able to execute a build in any of the most admired styles, past and present.  It's sort of like being fluent in several languages.....on the other hand, perhaps I am just artistically schizophrenic. 

[Daryl]

That's better than being artistically dyslexic, like me. 

[davec2]

Daryl......Yes...or....I'm not under the alcofluence of incahol but some thinkle peep I am......

Hey David...can you email me the pictures you mentioned in your post ?  Thanks

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Here's a Chambers' Gent's rifle made by my good friend Gary Mummery from Marysville, BC several years ago.  He used English walnut, a Durs Egg left hand lock and rust blued the barrel.  Very nice job!!

[smart dog]

Hi Dave,
I am sorry.  I got distracted with shop work.  I will immediately e-mail the photos I have on hand but I will take photos of the fowler tomorrow.

dave

[davec2]

Taylor,

Thanks for the great pictures.  Beautiful job by Mr. Mummery.

David,

Thanks for sending the photos.  I look forward to seeing them.

Dave C

[Feltwad]

Stick to only checkering which should be flat topped 18 or 20 lines to the inch with a small silver shield on the wrist .Carving makes it look more Continental
Feltwad

[sz]

I have a large book all about British flint guns from the 1760 to 1810 period and nearly every one of them in that book has carving.

[Oldbow]

Check Shumways book, gun # 120
 
An southern re-build I have always liked.

[Feltwad]

I have a large book all about British flint guns from the 1760 to 1810 period and nearly every one of them in that book has carving.

Most  guns by migrant foreign gun makers have a continentail influence  and not true English Sporting Rifle  you will also find that  the true English rifle  do not have a check piece , the lock moulding  are narrow  and most are finished with a tear drop , checkering is 18 to 20 lines to  the inch and is flat topped
Feltwad

[RossN]

This is mine, made from the Chambers kit. I know the sight isn't in keeping, but this is strictly a hunting rifle, and I can't see open sights well enough to feel comfortable using them.











It is a great rifle for carrying, and 54 sure works for me.

P.S. Does anyone have one NOT in left hand? Funnily enough, I went and stayed with my Father when he lived at the Tower of London, and spent some time in the armories. Not a single lefty. Seemed odd to me, as they made left locks for double guns. Odd, possibly even sinister........

[sz]

Another book to look at is "Great BRITISH Gunmakers 1740-1790.
The History of John Twigg and the Packington Guns.


I guess it's all about "migrant foreign gun makers".  ?

196 pages
Several hundred pictures of guns.

 I can find about 5 that are uncarved and NONE have dimond checkering.

 A few have square checkering and those are flat topped, but set at about 5-6 lines per inch, not 18.