Barrels

[shifty]

  What  Makers barrel do you like for say a Leman Rifle round ball gun for like moderate to heavy powder charges?

[Dennis Glazener]

Any of the barrel makers can provide barrels for this setup. Some prefer one maker over another but that's a choice you need to make.
Dennis

[elk killer]

i made a few fullstock flintlock Lemans,
used Green Mtn. barrels, a 15/16ths .54 barrel
makes a nice light rifle, with the curved Leman
butt plates, it can be a kicker, with a heavy load,
 
these days one barrel maker, is as good as another,
most barrels would shoot better, than we could hold them,
just a matter of opinion.

[oldarcher]

  What  Makers barrel do you like for say a Leman Rifle round ball gun for like moderate to heavy powder charges?

Almost any barrel maker can provide a barrel that will shoot better than you can....But we each have our preferences. Generally the caliber and rate of twist for the purpose that you intend are the considerations that you should decide on first. Most of the current barrel makers use 12L14 steel which is not the strongest barrel material available, but is commonly used because it is easy to machine and cuts smoothly. You may check this post for information about which steel is used by each maker. http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=21944.0
I have had excellent results with Colerain .54 1" x 31" radius groove barrel on Hawkens Lemans. One of the reasons that we build is that we can build what YOU want.
Good luck
Tom

[kaintuck]

Colerain or rice, or custom...ie, Charles Burton etc......all these are great, the shops have your wishes in stock for immediate mailing....the custom shops will do WHATEVER you wish and are 6-9 months behind.

Other places like track of the wolf, tip Curtis will have a stock also.......

Welcome aboard the train.....we can't stop ourselves and keep making "one more rifle"......

Marc n tomtom

[shifty]

  OOKK, Now that that is settled do you like square bottom or round bottom rifling?

[Acer Saccharum]

Round bottom rifling is in vogue now, but both styles shoot well. Round may clean a bit easier.

I wouldn't turn away a nice barrel if it had square rifling.

[rich pierce]

I guess I will have to try a barrel with round bottomed rifling someday.
Regarding your rifle choice, a Leman with its narrow buttstock and curved buttplate would be challenging for me to shoot with moderate to heavy charges pending on caliber.  I like wide flat buttplates for anything over 70 grains of powder and .50 and up.

[shifty]

  I have a 58cal custom Hawken that i shoot up to 120grns in but don't like to shoot it more than about 12 shots in one session and a 54cal but with 70to80grns that i can shoot 20 or more shots at one timeon the bench,but when shooting at game no problem at all.

[Bob Roller]

  I have a 58cal custom Hawken that i shoot up to 120grns in but don't like to shoot it more than about 12 shots in one session and a 54cal but with 70to80grns that i can shoot 20 or more shots at one timeon the bench,but when shooting at game no problem at all.

A friend made himself a Hawken using the Robideaux prints and it shot really well.
 His father said he wanted one but thought the crescent butt plate was a bad idea
so he had his stocked with a shotgun style butt plate and it was pleasant to shoot.
 I agree with him 100%.

 Bob Roller

[Ted Kramer]

I've built several Leman style rifles, .50, .54 and .58 caliber using Tracks #BP-E-4-B. It's less hooked than what actually should be on a Leman but at least the customers can comfortably use their rifles.
TK

[gunmaker]

Recoil on big bores is a problem with those crescent BP's, thats why English sporting rifles have flat shotgun BP's.  In fact a "Hawken" is almost a direct copy of one, with curved BP & set triggers.   The English BP ML rifles are the best design for heavy shooting--my 2 cents--only.    ...Tom

[stuart cee dub]

 There is nothing sacred regarding the curve of a steel buttplate .Often I will heat it up and hammer some of the curve out of it to make it more comfortable to shoot .

The last two straight walled barrels I purchased were Rice match grade barrels with the square bottomed rifling one of which is on my current ''money gun''

I have been very pleasantly surprised at how easily these barrels load  and how quickly they clean, well worth the extra 50 bucks .These match grade barrels are not available in the thinner side walled barrels .Lemans used the drum and nipple set up which means you should use a barrel thick enough to support the threaded drum anyway.If it is a matter of economy I would readily trade the lower cost of a plain piece of wood and put the money saved toward a better barrel.Lemans used plain wood anyway sometimes using faked but interesting faux tiger striping .

These later period rifles used  heavy -for- weight -of- caliber barrels and seem clunky compared to swamped barrels.  Weight is your friend ,it is why these Lemans can get away with those smaller curved buttplates,soaking up some of the recoil.
If it were me, I would look at a .45 caliber maybe a .50 in a 15/16ths. At least the recoil would not send you back to the Pleistocene Age even with a stout charge .

  

[Bob Roller]

Recoil on big bores is a problem with those crescent BP's, thats why English sporting rifles have flat shotgun BP's.  In fact a "Hawken" is almost a direct copy of one, with curved BP & set triggers.   The English BP ML rifles are the best design for heavy shooting--my 2 cents--only.    ...Tom

 Tom,
 I'll see your 2 cents and raise it to a dollar.The English sporting/targer rifles whether
with or without a pistol grip are IMHO,the ultimate muzzle loaders.

Bob Roller

[stuart cee dub]

Sorry we should ask .....Flint or percussion ? I assumed percussion.

As far great shooting stock configurations bar none ...The English really did figure it out
especially with the pistol grip .But we are talking Lemans here .

[WadePatton]

There is nothing sacred regarding the curve of a steel buttplate ...
  

hush yo mouf! 

Some styles wouldn't be without the crescent.  (I'm not speaking to this very style, i do not know it)


Accidentally ran ~130FF through my 54 once -pretty good curve in the plate, i noticed it more on my face than my shoulder/arm.  Seemed louder too...then i found the mangled patch and figgered out what had happened.

[stuart cee dub]

Good Afternoon Wade ,
 
Taking some curve out of a buttplate is not the same as flattening it out entirely.
Commercially purchased castings often  undersized
from the original parts they were copied from as a result of the copying and casting process .

Concider also that the average weight of a full grown man at the time of the Civil War (sometimes refered to as TWoNA) was maybe 140 lbs.
People changed ,as did the size of shoulders and biceps .Taking some of but not all of the radius out a curved butplate especially for one intended for heavy charges seems pretty sensible IMHO.Length of pull has gotten longer as well as people have grown taller on the average .

I in fact prefer a curved buttplate but find the curve of a Vincent for example just too much even for my upper arm.Looking for something similar in the Ohio school that fits better seems logical .What is the point of building rifles if they cannot be customized to fit ?

Regards Stuart
   

[WadePatton]

Good Afternoon Wade ,
 
Taking some curve out of a buttplate is not the same as flattening it out entirely.
Commercially purchased castings often  undersized
from the original parts they were copied from as a result of the copying and casting process .

Concider also that the average weight of a full grown man at the time of the Civil War (sometimes refered to as TWoNA) was maybe 140 lbs.
People changed ,as did the size of shoulders and biceps .Taking some of but not all of the radius out a curved butplate especially for one intended for heavy charges seems pretty sensible IMHO.Length of pull has gotten longer as well as people have grown taller on the average .

I in fact prefer a curved buttplate but find the curve of a Vincent for example just too much even for my upper arm.Looking for something similar in the Ohio school that fits better seems logical .What is the point of building rifles if they cannot be customized to fit ?

Regards Stuart
   

[/size]

I get your angle, thanks for following up. 

[JCKelly]

The barrel is the heart of a rifle.

My short answer would be Green Mountain. They have a reputation for accuracy, and the straight barrels they produce are appropriate to a Leman style rifle. I have a Green Mountain light swamped barrel waiting for me, stocked as a Sell Flintlock, by month's end.

Probably the strongest and most accurate barrels are those made by James McLemore, in Indiana, Runs in my mind he has made for chunk guns, using rifle barrel quality 4150. This might be stronger than needed for a black powder rifle, but it is AVAILABLE. Because the Army uses it for machine gun barrels.

Ed Rayl is said to use the nickel-chromium-molybdenum grade 8620. I have never dealt with him personally, and have no idea how well his barrels shoot. I recall that Log Cabin Shop, Lodi, Ohio used to carry Rayl barrels.

You have other information privately sent by me. And, you might take a look at Caywood Gunmakers,  www.caywood.com have a discussion of gun barrel quality steel on their home web page.

[Dphariss]

  What  Makers barrel do you like for say a Leman Rifle round ball gun for like moderate to heavy powder charges?

What caliber? If you want a 54 I would recommend a different stock design/buttplate. 50 is about max for the Squirrel Rifle buttplate found on these. I would use a 1" GM no larger than 50 cal if I wanted a Leman.
This was a 54 caliber "Conestoga Rifle Works", one of Leman's trade names or so I have read. Had typical Leman hardware, capbox and Leman 1840 marked lock . But I would pity anyone that shot heavy loads out of it. Having had a good friend with 50 cal Leman years ago.



Dan

[Mtn Meek]

  I have a 58cal custom Hawken that i shoot up to 120grns in but don't like to shoot it more than about 12 shots in one session and a 54cal but with 70to80grns that i can shoot 20 or more shots at one timeon the bench,but when shooting at game no problem at all.

Shifty, you don't say what you will use your future Leman for--hunting or target.

Below is a antique half stock Leman squirrel rifle and a Jack Brooks Leman Indian trade rifle.


The squirrel rifle is about .36 caliber with a 7/8" x 31-7/8" barrel.  The Brooks Leman is .54 caliber with a 1" x 32-1/4" barrel.  Both are straight octagon.

I don't have any problem shooting the .54 with 90 grains of 2F GOEX all day.  Some people may be a little more sensitive to recoil than others, but the deep crecsent butt plate on this rifle doesn't bother me at all.

If recoil is an issue and you are just going to shoot targets, you might consider something like the .36 caliber squirrel rifle.

I think the little half stock squirrel rifle is as cute as it can be.  But there are some indications that it was originally a full stock rifle.  The nose cap appears to be a muzzle cap.  The underrib is actually three pieces riveted to the barrel.  The upper rod pipes are brass instead of iron.

A friend has an antique full stock Leman squirrel rifle with a 36" barrel that in all other respects is the same as this half stock.  There is a good chance my squirrel rifle originally had a longer barrel, too.

Anyway, caliber is another way around the Leman butt plate challenge.

[Bob Roller]

The barrel is the heart of a rifle.

My short answer would be Green Mountain. They have a reputation for accuracy, and the straight barrels they produce are appropriate to a Leman style rifle. I have a Green Mountain light swamped barrel waiting for me, stocked as a Sell Flintlock, by month's end.

Probably the strongest and most accurate barrels are those made by James McLemore, in Indiana, Runs in my mind he has made for chunk guns, using rifle barrel quality 4150. This might be stronger than needed for a black powder rifle, but it is AVAILABLE. Because the Army uses it for machine gun barrels.

Ed Rayl is said to use the nickel-chromium-molybdenum grade 8620. I have never dealt with him personally, and have no idea how well his barrels shoot. I recall that Log Cabin Shop, Lodi, Ohio used to carry Rayl barrels.

You have other information privately sent by me. And, you might take a look at Caywood Gunmakers,  www.caywood.com have a discussion of gun barrel quality steel on their home web page.

 Jim McLemore called the other day and said his wife was doing better with her health issues and he
 actually got in the shop.He wants to make barrels and when he does they are the top of the line.
 Ed Rayl has a superb reputation as well and I wouldn't hesitate to buy a barrel from him.
 I used a GM barrel on a 58 caliber flintlock and it shot good and presented no problems.
   
 Bob Roller

[shifty]

  I have been looking at all the pics that MT Meek has been posting of the GRRW rifles and i was thinking of the one they called the Leman Indian Fullstock ,54cal.

[galamb]

I'm kinda "a-political" when it comes to rifle barrels - at least if you stick to current prolific builders.

It usually comes down to who makes the profile that I am looking for.

I went through a phase building a few 1840/50's Ohio rifles that typically had straight barrels.

Two of my personal rifles were built with a 7/8" straight Colerain and a 7/8" straight Green Mountain - one with round and one with square rifling.

Why?

Because they shoot well so I didn't see the need to pay a premium for a straight barrel and secondly, when I needed that barrel that was what was in stock in the caliber and length I wanted.

I hunt my guns - don't shoot for points and from that perspective have never noticed any accuracy difference between square/round rifling.

Likewise, they both clean up just fine - again, I don't shoot long strings of shots, so can't talk to the claim of "more shots between wipes" that is often tossed around when talking round rifling.

If you stick to the known barrel makers it's pretty tough to go wrong.

[Daryl]

This one, is quite pleasant to shoot & it's a 14bore rifle.



As-would these. The top one is a 6 bore (.91cal).