Need some help with ID on my new rifle

[Ky-Flinter]

I would welcome all comments and info on what I have here.  Any ideas on where the gun was made?  What time period?  Who might have made it?

The piece is stocked in maple with nice curl.  The barrel is 39 inches long, 59/64 at the breech tapering to 7/8 inch at the muzzle.  The barrel rib is riveted on with 4 evenly spaced rivets.  The caliber is something less than .36.  I’ve had the barrel out and looked all around for markings under magnification and good light, but found none.  No markings to be seen on the lock either.  Both are very finely pitted.  The stock has severe cap erosion and several cracks that run lengthwise thru the lock area that show old repairs.  There are 2 brass pins vertically through the stock to stabilize the cracks, one on the left side of the barrel tang and one to the right and rear of the barrel tang, plus a screw vertically through the wrist.  Old wood filler of some kind was used to fill the larger cracks.  The trigger guard and butt plate were polished recently and the front ramrod pipe replaced, before the rifle came home with me. This old girl apparently saw a lot of use, and must have been a good gun for someone to work so hard to keep her shooting. 

When I look at this rifle, with it’s long barrel and big nose cap that doesn’t seem quite right, it makes me think it might have originally been a full stock.  Is this wishful thinking?  What do you think?  Thanks in advance for your help.  -Ron

















The brass “washer” is not inletted into the stock.  It can be lifted with the fingers and used to remove the barrel pin.  It is the wick knob from an oil lamp.  It is marked “Holmes, Booth & Haydens Patent Jan. 24, 1860.  http://www.thelampworks.com/lw_companies_hb&h.htm











The silver front sight is set into a lengthwise slit in the barrel.

[Curt J]

The rifle certainly could have originally been a fullstock, but it might be impossible to tell without removing the underrib.  I'm fairly sure you don't want to do that, and neither would I.  Just enjoy it for what it is.  If only they could talk.

[Tanselman]

The rifle appears relatively late, based on the shape of the side facing around the lock plate. There is an oversized, large flat "tail" to the rear and virtually no trace of the side facing to the front...pretty late details. Also, the taper of the forestock grip area up toward the nose cap makes it look like an original half-stock. It is possible the forestock was tapered during a shortening of the forestock, but I think the odds of that are small. Many old full-stocks that were cut to a half-stock later in life have a faint line out along the barrel past the nose cap, caused by greater oxidation of the exposed iron barrel above the forestock line, and less oxidation of the barrel below the forestock line (since it's protected by the forestock wood that covers it). You might want to look closely at your barrel to see if you can detect a faint line, or remnants of a faint line, out along the barrel that would indicate at one time it was a full-stocked gun. Shelby Gallien

[PPatch]

That rifle talks to me. Otherwise I wouldn't remark here since I am not a collector nor know much about these matters. The rifle looks to have a history of use and love, someone cared for it, it is obvious. She's kinda homely (sorry gal) but I bet she barked many a squirrel and provided many a fine hunting success in her day. Glad she is in good hands and thanks for the excellent photographs.

dp

[Molly]

Good to read that others hear what these old guns have to say!  Be careful however that you don't begin talking TO them.

[Bob Roller]

 I made one very much like this when I was in High School.Old parts from a wrecked antique
and don't remember what kind wood. It was a shop project.That forearm cap looks like it came off
of a repeater of some kind. Anyhow,60 years since I did this IF it is the one I made.

Bob Roller

[Ky-Flinter]

Curt,
Thanks for the reply.  No, the underrib will not be disturbed.  I may replace the forward ramrod pipe, as it does not match the mid pipe and the solder job is pretty bad.  And of course she needs a ramrod.

Shelby,
Thanks for your input.  I will give the side and lower barrel flats a closer inspection when I get home tonight.

PPatch,
She whispered to me too, and I had to bring her home.  I agree she looks to have a history of use and love, but "homely"?, no way, but maybe I'm just smitten.

-Ron

[Ky-Flinter]

I made one very much like this when I was in High School.Old parts from a wrecked antique
and don't remember what kind wood. It was a shop project.That forearm cap looks like it came off
of a repeater of some kind. Anyhow,60 years since I did this IF it is the one I made.

Bob Roller

So, now I can say I own the first rifle Bob Roller ever made!

-Ron

[Bob Roller]

I made one very much like this when I was in High School.Old parts from a wrecked antique
and don't remember what kind wood. It was a shop project.That forearm cap looks like it came off
of a repeater of some kind. Anyhow,60 years since I did this IF it is the one I made.

Bob Roller

So, now I can say I own the first rifle Bob Roller ever made!

-Ron

 MAYBE you have the first one I made.There were NO new parts and if it is
my first one,where did you find it? I have lived in Huntington WV since
1946.I can't positively say it's the one I made in shop class at Huntington
High School but it looks as I remember it and I don't remember what became of it.
There would be no marks on it to identify it either.
 
Bob Roller

[WadePatton]

I find that nose cap and many other things "distinct".   I don't know because Bob "pre-dates" me a little bit and has more experience trying to remember stuff from longer ago, but I'd think I'd remember decorating that muzzle at least. 

Be real neat to have Mr. Roller certify that was his primero.

[davebozell]

I'm guessing that the muzzle was decorated 150 years ago. If it's the rifle Mr. Roller built in high school, it was that way when he built it.  Pretty cool if it turns out to be the same rifle.  It is pretty distinctive, so it very well be the one that Mr. Roller remembers. 

[WadePatton]

Oh yeah, that too.  Neat old gun fer sure.

[Ky-Flinter]

.....where did you find it? .......
 
Bob Roller

A consignment auction in Lawrenceburg, Ky.

-Ron

[Bob Roller]

I'm guessing that the muzzle was decorated 150 years ago. If it's the rifle Mr. Roller built in high school, it was that way when he built it.  Pretty cool if it turns out to be the same rifle.  It is pretty distinctive, so it very well be the one that Mr. Roller remembers. 

Where is this rifle now? One that I made for E.M.Farris,probably in 1969 or '60
ended up in Louisiana.
 Bob Roller

[Ky-Flinter]

...... Where is this rifle now? ......
 Bob Roller

Lexington, Ky.

-Ron

[Shreckmeister]

and has more experience trying to remember stuff from longer ago .

    Wade, that's the nicest way I have ever heard anyone get called old.   I wish people were that kind to me.

[Bob Roller]

I'm guessing that the muzzle was decorated 150 years ago. If it's the rifle Mr. Roller built in high school, it was that way when he built it.  Pretty cool if it turns out to be the same rifle.  It is pretty distinctive, so it very well be the one that Mr. Roller remembers. 

Where is this rifle now? One that I made for E.M.Farris,probably in 1969 or '60
ended up in Louisiana.
 Bob Roller

First a typo correction. I meant 1959 or '60.The rifle I made for Mr. Farris
 was a remake on a rifle that was broken in shipment from Canada.I remember
it as having silver butt plate and trigger guard and I restocked it in walnut.
I don't remember much about the lock or trigger but it worked OK and I shot
it on Bill Large's range.

Bob Roller

[Bob Roller]

I'm guessing that the muzzle was decorated 150 years ago. If it's the rifle Mr. Roller built in high school, it was that way when he built it.  Pretty cool if it turns out to be the same rifle.  It is pretty distinctive, so it very well be the one that Mr. Roller remembers. 

Where is this rifle now? One that I made for E.M.Farris,probably in 1969 or '60
ended up in Louisiana.
 Bob Roller

 One thing is certain,I NEVER decorated a muzzle on any barrel. The main thing
I remember is the drop in the stock.I never fired that one and built it to see if
my skill level at 18 was worth developing along these lines.I had been working
on Duesenberg cars for nearly three years before this along with new English
cars like MG,Morris,Riley and Jaguar and a couple of semi obscure ones like
Humber and Singer. NONE of them were much good and NONE of them went
10,000  miles without a major repair and woth only a 90 day or 4000 mile warranty
the owners had the pleasure of paying captive market prices to get them working again.

Bob Roller