Questions on a D. Boyd I found at the local gun show today

[Fatherandersonthepaladin]

All I know about this gun is that it's a D. Boyd made percussion rifle. The only reason I know that is because it's printed on the top of the barrel. I have absolutely nil for experience when it comes to muzzle loaders of any variety, being that my weapons focus until now has only been World War 2 bolt actions and the SKS carbine (yes... I admit it... I like the SKS far too much, and tend to know more than I should about them).  Anywho, let me start at the beginning. I was walking around the gun show earlier today, having sold my old CZ52 pistol for $210 I decided I'd poke around and see if there was anything I could find to replace it. Lo and behold, there was an interesting looking gun sitting on the table in front of me, a 19th century muzzle loading rifle with some odd name printed on the barrel. Long story short, I bought it for $210 flat, thinking it looked cool and it would make a nice wall hanger. Of course, being the dutiful gunboards member that I am, I posted my find on the site asking for any insight as to its origin, and got a few responses saying that D. Boyd referenced some kind of "last master gun maker" or something. I still know nothing about this rifle other than that it's a Kentucky Longrifle with a halfstock and a poured nosecap. I'm sure that means something to someone, but to me it's greek. Here's what I've figured out for myself: The top of the barrel, which is octagonal or hexagonal is marked with "D. Boyd", the lock only partially works and only at half-cock, there is a dual trigger system, there's alot of brass on this gun, it has a crack at the wrist that was repaired at some point with woodglue but is still conspicuous, and it looks like it might be .65 caliber or .45 caliber... I can never measure these things correctly, but I know it's bore is bigger than the bore in my .30-06 1903A3 Springfield. The ramrod is tipped with some weird as $#*! tornado design, and the brass is ornately decorated. I have no idea how to post pics on this forum, so for now it'll be on an email only basis until I can figure it out. Incidentally, if anyone lives nearby and wants to check it out, I'm in Denton TX and wouldn't mind help in figuring out the origin of this beast.

[nord]

Send the photos to me at <nordata@earthlink.net> and I'll post them. (See the Library & Museum section if you have any questions.)

Denton, TX... My late father flunked out of flight school there during WW2. It seems he made a spectacular landing which involved bouncing over a hangar. Apparently his instructor was so impressed that he allowed my dad to proceed with a military education elsewhere.

As I remember there were stories of a college in Denton with lots of nice looking females attending. I probably have photos somewhere.

So... Hello Denton.

[altankhan]

You will have to do some more research on the maker -- that will actually be fun, and maybe some folks here can help you.  You might also want to go to the home page of the NMLRA (National Muzzleloading Rifle Association) and check out their journal Muzzle Blasts--they often run a feature where people send in descriptions. 

As for now, I would resist doing anything at all to the gun. Just leave it alone and enjoy looking at it, as refinishing it, replacing sights or screws, using wrong glue on cracks, etc. will greatly harm the value if not done right -- just as it would harm any other antique's value.  You are lucky the gun has a name on it, as the maker may be listed somewhere.  Good luck! (There was a Daniel Boyer who worked in Medina county Ohio around 1850, by the way)

[Fatherandersonthepaladin]

Here's some info I got from one of the other guys at gunboards who seems to know who D. Boyd is. I can't speak for the accuracy of the biography myself, but this is the first time I've ever even heard his name.

David Boyd, an ornamental ironworker by trade but also a riflemaker, lived in Greenville, County, South Carolina on the Reedy River in the 1840-1870 time period. His rifles were heavily influenced by the Jamestown, North Carolina School of riflemakers (Moravian Germans, mostly at least originally, I think). David had a brother named James Foster who usually made the locks for David's rifles.

And from the same member upon examining my photos (I'm working on getting better ones, so I appologize in advance for the quality of these ones).

Based on the limited amount I can see in the photos I'll gamble a little and say that it is a Southern influenced rifle. The high comb on the stock is very characteristic, and is found from southwest Virginia down through the Carolinas, Georgia and Alabama. I don't have any photos of D.Boyd's work, but I do have a photo of a flintlock rifle built by his father, A. Boyd, who was also a riflemaker. The high combed stock is very promenant on the father's work. D. Boyd apprenticed under Thomas Peden who, in turn, had apprenticed under A.Boyd, D's father. Rifle characteristics were commonly passed down. All were from Greenville County. I would like to know if there is a patchbox or capbox on the right side just foward of the buttplate. Or, if there is a "taller" hole or nothing at all.

In longrifle circles your rifle is called a half-stock with a poured nosecap. These came in after about 1830ish, but were more common after 1840 on through the 1880's. The large calibre is a little unusual on a Southern rifle made for Southern type game. Usually, in the caplock period, Southern rifles were about .36cal through .45cal with .36-.38cals being very common. A .65cal is a 16 gauge in shotguns. David Boyd was active in South Carolina well into the 1870's. He appears in Gonzales County, Texas in 1880! Based on the limited photos, I think it's very possible that you have a rifle made in Texas, and probably one of the very last ones made by Boyd if, in fact, it truly is a Boyd rifle.

I took a picture of the top of the barrel as best I could so as to show the name D. Boyd printed on it, and in answer to his question, there is no patch box. I finally got a chance to correctly measure the bore and it's between .36 and .40 caliber (tried a bullet test w/ .30-06 and a .44 magnum and the magnum was a little too big and the .30-06 was a little too small, but the bore is a tiny bit closer to .30-06 than to .44). As I get more information I'll keep bouncing it back between forums to see how much closer I can get to figuring out what this is. I'm also going to talk to a few civil war reenactors I know that have had their rifles restored from relic condition to near brand new condition and see which shops they've used.

[woodsrunner]

This Gentleman has posted here on our Board at my invitation/suggestion. His knowledge of Longrifles is very limited, but he is considered highly professional and knowledgable of WWII military small arms with a speciality in, I think, Russian arms. I think that he is in academia as a professor of military history, and has expressed an interest in restoring the piece that he has as a sample of early longrifles.

The quotes that you see in his initial Post are comments that I have passed on to him on the GunBoards message board. My information comes from Jerry's books, "Notes on Southern Longrifles", and I'm sure that some of our Board members have other sources that will add to helping this person in his quest for information.

I would also suspect that Jerry Noble would appreciate knowing of this rifle and seeing the photos if, in fact, it turns out to be an original David Boyd piece and it sure looks like it is. So, Dennis, when the photos are posted and if you concur with my thoughts, maybe we should pass them on to Jerry. 

[Curt J]

I talk to Jerry nearly every other evening on the phone and will see him next weekend at the Prairie State Longrifle show. (Jerry and I are co-sponsors of the show, along with Craig Johnson) I'll make Jerry aware that this rifle exists. He doesn't do computers and the internet, though I'm working on him in that regard.

[nord]

Photos -

[Fatherandersonthepaladin]

My specialties are the SKS and the Mosin Nagant, I'm also fairly knowledgeable about the M1903A3 "Springfield", the Gewehr 88, and, for no particular reason, the AK47. As I've stated previously, I mostly keep to my bolt actions, excluding my studies of the SKS of course, but I've been known to make forays into the semi automatic world, and this percussion rifle is my first muzzle loader. I've shot some kind of Springfield muzzle loader once in the past, but that's the extent of my experience with them. Incidentally, I'm not a professor quite yet, I'm still working on my masters in history, immediately after which I will be pursuing my doctorate. Basically, all this rifle means to me is an opportunity to study the first uniquely American style of rifle, and then use it as a teaching aid in the future, and possibly a trip to the chiropractor if it kicks as hard as I expect it to. Barring that I can get it to fire of course, which seems highly unlikely with the antique restoration shops near me charging $90 an hour on top of a $96 consultation fee. I'm liable to bring it to some local museums to see if they can restore it at this point.

[Curt J]

What a great rifle! The sideplate and toe plate are wonderful southern folk-art touches that really set this rifle apart, even if it does lack a patchbox or other frills. That $210 was well spent!

Don't be in a big hurry about restoration, there are lots of contacts here who can help with that.

[Dennis Glazener]

Iwould also suspect that Jerry Noble would appreciate knowing of this rifle and seeing the photos if, in fact, it turns out to be an original David Boyd piece and it sure looks like it is. So, Dennis, when the photos are posted and if you concur with my thoughts, maybe we should pass them on to Jerry.

Rich,
I have no problems with that but the owner of the photo copyright should be the one to make that decision. Plus hard copies of the photos would need to be mailed to Jerry since, unless he's changed recently, Jerry does not do computer, email or internet.
Dennis

[JTR]

For sure a good 200 bucks spent!
And yes, go easy on the restoration. Restoring it back to 'perfect' condition will just deduct many many dollars off its value to a collector.
From what I see, the crack through the lock area needs attention to strengthen the gun, remove what looks like white paint from hanging on a wall, maybe look at what going on with the finish on the lockside butt area, and little else.
From the pics it looks like the lock might not be the original, and I question the side plate, as it seems to span the crack through the lock area, but wasn't bent when the stock was broken. All minor things overall.

John

[Ky-Flinter]

..... From the pics it looks like the lock might not be the original.....

I was thinking the same thing, based on the square inlet at the tail of the lock and the gap in the stock at the front of the lock.

Since the stock wood is relieved along the top of the lock mortise behind the hammer, could this indicate the rifle was originally flint?

It a very nice and interesting piece and well worth the money spent!  Thanks for sharing it with us.

-Ron

[Fatherandersonthepaladin]

It looks like someone at one point tried restoration before I got it. There's a toothpick in place of one of the pins (that made me laugh uproariously) and the trigger guard is barely hanging on there. The hammer locks at half cock but not at full, and the triggers aren't releasing it, and two of the pins holding the trigger mechanism on have been replaced by more modern nails. It's quite a bit of a mess, but I'd like to see if I can get it a good home with another collector at this point, because I fear my home just isn't equipped to care for it. If ya'll wish to pass these photos on, you're more than welcome to, it's for the purpose of study and if I stood in the way of that, I'd be some $#*! of a hypocrite. Anyway, I'm going to see what I can do to keep it from deteriorating from now so that someone capable of keeping it safe will have the chance to appreciate it. That, and I'd really like to get an Enfield No. 1 Mk. III or No. 4 Mk. 1 or Mk. 2 in place of it because it sticks out like a sore, unshootable thumb (if anyone can actually FIND a shootable thumb, let me know, because I really would like to see that) in my collection and I feel bad whenever there's something historically valuable that's going to waste. Incidentally, I too think the lock is a replacement, because it's marked with something other than D. Boyd's brother's name. Either way though, I'm glad I could learn a bit from it at least. The engineering inside the lock is fascinating, as is the idea of the builder that such a long barrel is practical. Anyhow, thanks for all the info.

[Mike Brooks]

Looks like a North Carolina gun to me....did anybody already guess that?

[Fatherandersonthepaladin]

I just did asked the guy I bought this from and, in his own words, "Great grandpa was the first one to own it, I don't know anything about it other than that". Well, that was worth the drive... I'm taking it down to the local Bass Pro shop and see what the gentleman that runs the fine gun room knows about it. If I can get an Enfield or a Russian capture Mauser 98K for this, I'm gonna take it because this gun is causing my hair to gray about 20 years ahead of its time. I'll admit, it's an amazingly interesting history behind it, but I'm not the kind of person that holds on to guns that can't be shot. I think I'll start my antique muzzle loader collection with something a little more... modern... like a replica of a musket.

[cshirsch]

Hello, my name is Chris Hirsch and I wrote the new book, The Texas Gun Trade, 1780 - 1899.  I am very interested in seeing this rifle.  Please contact me.

Thanks,
Chris Hirsch
cshirsch@windstream.net

[Rootsy]

No offense to Bass Pro, Cabelas, etc staff but them knowing anything remotely intellectual about this rifle is about as likely as as the average high school junior solving non-linear differential equations, long hand...