Wedge escuchion shortcuts??

[Scota4570]

I am building a rifle similar to the second one here,  the early Armstrong:

http://contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/2013/10/work-by-john-armstrong-at-james-julia.html

The barrel wedge escutcheons look like a pain to inlet.  There are eight to do and they are all the same.  The patch box took much longer than anticipated and has become very tedious.   I am not looking forward to doing all eight escutcheons.   I was thinking of a tiny router with a collar and template.  The modern Dremil router is a plunge type, I don't see any options for collars.   Anyone use something along those lines?  

Should I make chisels of the correct shape to stamp out the exterior contour of the escutcheons.  I could see that two chisels would cover the ellipse of the escutcheon shape.  

Second thing, I don't see any molding details on the fore end along the ramrod channel.  Does it appear that the contour is simply rounded and has no molding details? 

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

If I'm correct, the escutcheons on your rifle will be small ovals, perhaps an inch long and 1/2 - 5/8" high.  Since there are eight of them, they will require a commitment of some time and patience, but are very simple to inlet.  Be sure to file a 'draft' on the edges while they are flat, and then curve them with a piece of pipe in a hollowed out piece of maple to the contour of the stock.  Use the key to hold it in place while you draw around it with a sharp pencil.  Withdraw it, and mark it along the top inside edge with a little nick of a file so that it goes back the same way each time.  Use a narrow stamping tool, and chisels that have less than the radius of the curves, to cut within those lines.  Remove a furrow up to the cut line all the way around the stamped line, almost to the depth of the inlay's thickness.  Remove the wood inside the oval first with a 1/4" gouge chisel, cutting across the grain, and then pare away the tops of the ridges with a small flat chisel.  With the inlay still on the key, black the inside of the escutcheon and slip the key back into its slot, until the escutcheon contacts.  A light tap with a rawhide mallet will transfer the colour to the high spots in the inlet, so you can remove those until the escutcheon bottoms. 
You can secure the escutcheon plates with small nails or two screws with just enough countersink to allow the slot in the head to be removed.  It takes me about 15 - 20 minutes to inlet such an escutcheon this way...you get better (faster and more accurate) with each successful inlay.
Dremel:  a useful tool in the hands of one skilled with this fine work, but a disaster with one little ooops!  "Go placidly amid the noise and haste, and remember what peace there is in silence"  ..or something to that effect.  Enjoy the ride for what it is, and relax with this.  Every escutcheon will be an enjoyable challenge, so take your time and savour the moment.

[Scota4570]

I have a love/hate with dremil too.  They are overused by beginners.  In the right hands for the right job a dremil is indispensable.  The Dremil router bits can get away from you and are of little use.  The router attachment with a spiral cutter or the carbide roto zip tile cutter is the best way I have found to inlet a side lock.  If you cut one piece of the lock innerds at a time using the router it comes out near perfect.  Much better than could be done with chisels.  One could do something similar on a milling machine.  

I probably will end up using the traditional tools.  I was hoping some body had some labor saving idea.  By the time I made a little router, maybe with my Foredom tool, I could done the job the traditional way.  Sometime I over think things. 

[ScottH]

Taylor,
 Thank You! I have two escutcheons to inlet on a project. Having not done anything quite like this before I was a bit concerned on how to get this done correctly so it looks good.
I took the liberty of copying and pasting your directions into a word document that I will print and take to my bench.

[Mike Brooks]

I am building a rifle similar to the second one here,  the early Armstrong:

http://contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/2013/10/work-by-john-armstrong-at-james-julia.html

The barrel wedge escutcheons look like a pain to inlet.  There are eight to do and they are all the same.  The patch box took much longer than anticipated and has become very tedious.   I am not looking forward to doing all eight escutcheons.   I was thinking of a tiny router with a collar and template.  The modern Dremil router is a plunge type, I don't see any options for collars.   Anyone use something along those lines?  

Should I make chisels of the correct shape to stamp out the exterior contour of the escutcheons.  I could see that two chisels would cover the ellipse of the escutcheon shape.  

Second thing, I don't see any molding details on the fore end along the ramrod channel.  Does it appear that the contour is simply rounded and has no molding details? 

I congratulate you on the fire in the belly to tackle eight wedges on one gun. I just have never had that much patience for those types of things. I wouldn't fear the patch box, but I'd run in horror from those wedge keys.

[Acer Saccharum]

I wouldn't fear the patch box, but I'd run in horror from those wedge keys.

You should stick to chickens, Mike.

I'm on the same page as Mike. I am running out of patience for some things, and eight ovals would do it for me.


May I suggest something? You will get really good at inletting these things, but your first two won't be your best ones. Don't start with the first two that EVERYONE will be looking at, the ones on the grip. Next most seen will be the muzzle ovals. So start somewhere in between the two. 

[Scota4570]

[I congratulate you on the fire in the belly to tackle eight wedges on one gun. I just have never had that much patience for those types of things. I wouldn't fear the patch box, but I'd run in horror from those wedge keys. [/quote]

The wedge escutcheons don't scare me from a technical point of view, just the tedious time sucker issue. Also making a mess of it.   But, I did not take this on as a production line project.   I like to keep something on the bench to mess with.  It give me something to look forward to, after work.  How long it takes is irrelevant.  I like to do this kind of work as a puzzle/problem solving exersize. 

Even so, I think I'll make a couple of gouges to match the escutcheons.  I'll make a template that consists of a hole in sheet metal that matches the escutcheons.  The escutcheons appear to be ellipses, I have drafting templates for ellipses.  I could then attach the template to the stock with double sided tape and surgical tubing.  Then I would stamp out the periphery of the escutcheon inlet with the matching gouges.  The idea of stamping out the escutcheon recess by eye based on a pencil mark seems risky.  Seems like positioning the template based on the escutcheon and wedge assembly  and working inside the template would be faster and more accurate.

What about the fore stock molding?  Can anyone make out what it should be from the pictures?   It looks like there is none to me.

[tallbear]

For what it's worth heres how i do it.........http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=29664.0


Mitch Yates

[T*O*F]

I am running out of patience for some things, and eight ovals would do it for me.

The shortcut would be to make an oval out of steel and weld it to a rod.  Then burn all 8 of them into the wood.  No hassles and at least all of the inlets would be identical. ~ in )(

[JTR]

What about the fore stock molding?  Can anyone make out what it should be from the pictures?   It looks like there is none to me.

It's one of the great Armstrong's, of course it has a fore arm molding! Look at the picture showing the rear RR entry pipe, and you'll see what you need.

John

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

There's one more thing - at least! 

The escutcheon on the lower forearm - between the lock and the entry pipe - will be the easiest to inlet.  It just goes straight into the wood using the key to guide it.  But the three pairs on the upper forearm are different.  They are not laying on a flat section of the wood, and are not inlet square with the horizontal axis through the forearm, ie:  the axis of the wedges themselves.  They must be started into the wood LOWER than where they will end up to line up with the wedges.  How much lower you ask?  That depends upon the angle of your forestock relative to the horizontal axis of the wedges.  But as an idea, try about half the thickness of the metal of the escutcheon.  To put this another way, if you were to just slide the escutcheon onto the wedge, and up against the wood to trace its outline, by the time you got it to depth, THE SLOT IN THE ESCUTCHEON WOULD NOT LINE UP WITH THE WEDGE'S SLOT!  It would end up higher than that slot.  So that's why you have to start these inlets a little below...you're inletting them upward toward the wedge slot.  I hope that's clearer than mud.

[Scota4570]

What about the fore stock molding?  Can anyone make out what it should be from the pictures?   It looks like there is none to me.

It's one of the great Armstrong's, of course it has a fore arm molding! Look at the picture showing the rear RR entry pipe, and you'll see what you need.

John

That is a picture of the first rifle's entry pipe.  I am loosely copying the second rifle, the early flintlock. 

thanks,

Scot

[JTR]

Sorry, my confusion.

John

[louieparker]

Scot, There may be an Armstrong out there without a molding, but I don't recall seeing one. You can't go wrong by copying the molding on the other rifle.. If you need it I can send you a photo of how it terminates at the nose cap...LP

[Marcruger]

One some of the North Carolina piedmont rifles with the "football" shaped escutcheons, the molding along the forestock is "interrupted" or "broken".  In other words, some just stopped the molding on either side of the escutcheon.  On others, the molding line is turned down to the ramrod slot before and after the escutcheons.  From the side view, the turned down molding goes from horizontal to a roughly 45 degree angle down, skips a bit, and then 45 degrees back up and to the standard horizontal molding again.   

I hope this helps.  Best wishes,   Marc

[flehto]

Have inletted 8 escutcheons a few times and as was said, the 2 rear inlays are easy while the 6 inlays on the upper forend have to be located lower and then inletted. How much lower? I just used trig and everything came out fine.  The slots are in when I inlet these inlays but the upper and lower surfaces of the slots have to be filed at an angle of the installed wedge. Below are pics of the rearmost inlay and an inlay at the muzzle. Perhaps I should have used steel pins, but didn't know any better.....Fred

  

 

[Curt Larsen]

Tallbear thanks for your tutorial.  It is helpful.  That along with Taylor's description gives me a bit more courage to attack my latest project.  I often take on project guns that others have abandoned or just left behind.  Right now I'm reworking an old pre carve that turned out to be cherry or some other fruit wood.  All the brass was inletted and had turned almost black with patina from age.  The stock was inlet for a 7/8" 44" barrel.  The stock was inlet for four wedges.  The original apparently had wide wedges  that aren't readily available.  The first problem was lining up underlugs on the new barrel with the old wedge inlets.  Then it was fitting wedges.  I used ready made ones with slanted heads from TOW.  The only problem is that the inletted wedge slots are wider than the wedges.  I bought escutcheons the same size slot as the wedge dimensions.  The head of the wedges nicely covers the over sized slot in the forestock, but leaves an ugly gap on the exit side.  I bought the escutcheons to remedy this but have been daunted by the task of inletting them.  Tallbear and Taylor are giving me courage, but still haven't decided to take up my chisels.  As an aside, Woodcraft and some other suppliers sell very small chisels and gouges for model ship building.  I have a set that might be helpful--I hope.
Curt

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Curt:  if I were doing this restoration, I would fill the rectangular slots with plugs of maple, or in your case, cherry, and re-cut them for the wedges you have.  It is the wood that provides the contact for the wedges - not the escutcheons (unless it's a Lyman GPR or a T/C).

It is far more difficult for me, anyway, to create eight oval escutcheon plates that are identical, than it is to inlet them.  A tutorial on that process might be interesting and helpful.

[armsmaker]

Consider making an inlay ever so slightly larger for that particular location and if it offends your eye, make the opposite match. I've noticed an awful lot of originals which inlays tapered in size with the forestock; a beautiful detail. Considering every rifle was handmade, the thinking that every inlay must be exactly the same size has come from machine stamping out an inlay in mass. Also, its helpful to use a flat fine file and taper the inside of the inlay on the angle of the key. Have you already run the keys through?

[Curt Larsen]

Thanks for the idea Taylor.  I had thought of that originally but worried over matching the wood.  It is certainly worth a try as I have some cherry on hand.  It's got to be easier than inletting those escutcheons.

[JTR]

I think I'd just make new wedges to fit the wood, if you don't want to do the escutcheons.
The wedges are easy to make with a suitable piece of steel, a hacksaw, vise, a propane torch and a hammer. And a file to smooth things out. Even if you've never made one, I'll bet you could do four in a couple hours!

John

[mike blair]

if you go to the James d. Julia web site the pics are much easier to understand.you can see the molding as two lines that are even with the top and bottom of the head of the wedge.that rifle was in the auction on October 14-16 2013 session 2 lot#2346.about two thirds down the page.hope this helps. 

[Mike Brooks]

Have inletted 8 escutcheons a few times and as was said, the 2 rear inlays are easy while the 6 inlays on the upper forend have to be located lower and then inletted. How much lower? I just used trig and everything came out fine.  The slots are in when I inlet these inlays but the upper and lower surfaces of the slots have to be filed at an angle of the installed wedge. Below are pics of the rearmost inlay and an inlay at the muzzle. Perhaps I should have used steel pins, but didn't know any better.....Fred

Trig.......oh boy. I did one with 8 key escutcheons years ago. I prayed mightily to the Lord and let her rip. All turned out well. But, I'll never do them again!

[flehto]

Mike...you just have the knack....the rest of us have to use whatever means gets the job done.  I've used trig most of my adult life and it's one type of math that has  many very practical uses. It's a fairly simple math and wouldn't take you but a couple of weeks to learn. I don't use it a whole lot when building MLers but it does come in handy every once in awhile. Take care of those hips.....Fred

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I wasn't suggesting filling the wood instead of making escutcheon plates.  But the plates alone will not hold the barrel securely in the barrel channel...the wedges need to be in contact with wood.  So I'd fill the slots, re-cut them for the keys you have, and make escutcheon plates to cover up the repair.