Wooden patchbox perfection

[Cory Joe Stewart]

Greetings,

I have made a couple of sliding wooden patchboxes now, but have never achieved a tight seal.  I always have a slight gap between the surface of the stock and the bottom surface of the patchbox.  Those of you who have handled originals and made more patchboxes than me, what is an acceptable width to such a gap?

Coryjoe

[kaintuck]

I like it to paper width??? Sliding on the wood is ok, but....wood swelling may stick it!....so beware~

marc n tomtom

[smallpatch]

The easiest way to avoid the gap is by making a two piece lid.  Make your dovetailed piece, file it flat with the surface, then glue on the lid.  No gap!

[t.caster]

First off your stock has to be flat the full length and across the area under the patchbox. Check it with a flat piece of glass or steel or a sanding block.
Then the dovetails should be tapered, not parallel! I go a good 1/16" or slightly   wider at the buttplate end. I cut down and clear out 1/8" opening for the patchbox, and then cut the dt's with chisel, file and scrapers until smooth and straight.

I initially make my patchbox (one piece of wood) a couple inches longer than needed with the same taper. I make my dovetail under the lid using a router table. I then cut away the underside of the nose until it fits into the mortice.
There is a lot more to do to finish it up, but the initial layout & preparation of the pieces makes everything go together easier
The taper helps snug the lid down as it goes in tighter and usually eliminates problems from moisture swelling the wood.

Tom C

[RichG]

contact Ryan Roberts at muzzleloaders builders supply.(mbssales@hotmail.com) He make a neat little scrapper that makes the most perfect dove tails for sliding wood patch boxes. I think he charged me 12.00 for mine. Your lid is one piece and the dovetails match perfectly since they're both made with the same tool. He's also a nice guy

[LRB]

  I agree with Smallpatch. The two piece type leaves little to no guess work, once everything is flat and true It also allows for perfect alignment in the direction of the nose. But, to each his own. As long as it fits right, looks right, and works right, there is no wrong way. What I see a lot of, is less than good fitting of the end cap in the butt plate dove tail. It takes me a few hours to get one fitted to my satisfaction. I like a tad more angle in the dovetail, but this one was an "in the white" I re built for someone and had to replace the entire lid. I coulda, shoulda changed the dovetail a bit, but it worked fine with a new lid.

[Cory Joe Stewart]

Thanks everyone.  My lid is a two piece style lid.  It fits very nice until the last little bit and then the very tip of the lid juts up suddenly revealing about an 1/16 gap.  I have not attached the back of the lid yet, or the spring.  I will keep playing with it.

Coryjoe

[smallpatch]

Coryjoe,
That is what Wick, and others meant by getting that surface flat. The lid doesn't jut up, the background falls away.
If the bed isn't flat(all the way to the end), then you'll have gaps somewhere.
Unfortunately, if you can't live with it, the only way to fix it is to start over. Flatten the background all the way to the end, and make a new lid.
Hope your day isn't wrecked.

[Curt Larsen]

You might also like to check Al Neubauer's website for his tutorial.  Look for Hoot Al on Google.

[RAT]

Since the flat spot on the stock wasn't long enough, you could reduce the gap by shortening and reshaping the front of the lid a little.

[Cory Joe Stewart]

Yeah a new lid, or adjusting the current one may be an option.  I am not overly happy with the style anyway.  So there will be some experimenting. 

[RAT]

If all else fails you can fill the dovetail slot in the buttplate and install a metal patchbox.

I believe I saw a picture of an original someplace that had the dovetail in the buttplate filled, but no evidence that a wood box was ever installed on the gun. The buttplate could have been reused from another rifle.

[smallpatch]

Coryjoe,
Maybe a little relief??  Most newer builders, myself included, make patch box lids way too big.
Is it a possibility that you could reduce the lid enough to get rid of the gap?
Just a thought.

[Stophel]

I will disagree with the apparent consensus here and say that I find it VASTLY EASIER to make a box lid in the traditional one-piece manner rather than two pieces.  There's not much to it.  You make the dovetails in the lid the same way you make the dovetails in the stock. Depth gauge, chisel, and eyeball.  Easy peasy.

I like to make mine so you can just BARELY see light between the lid and side of the stock.  Don't want it scrubbing hard, and don't want grass and stuff getting caught in it either.  

The hardest thing I find about making wood box lids is doing that stupid little metal endcap.  I HATE those, though I have figured out a better way to do them than I used to do.  It has to match the flow of the shape of the buttplate, so it is TWISTED.  Just like with triggerplates, I'd prefer to not make them at all!   

[Stophel]

Thanks everyone.  My lid is a two piece style lid.  It fits very nice until the last little bit and then the very tip of the lid juts up suddenly revealing about an 1/16 gap.  I have not attached the back of the lid yet, or the spring.  I will keep playing with it.

Coryjoe

This sounds like the dovetail in the lid is too narrow at the front (tight in the back, loose in the front) and probably the leading edge of the lid dovetail is riding up on bumps in the very front end of the stock dovetails (it's hard to get a truly square cut inside corner, especially in this location, where it can be difficult to get tools at it).  Or the stock dovetails are not truly S T R A I G H T and of even depth, and the box lid is simply riding up.  Knock the corners off the leading edges of the box lid dovetails and make sure that the stock dovetails are level and of perfectly even depth, and see if that keeps it from bumping up (though it won't help with the looseness!)

[Robby]

Towards the final fitting if there is a problem and it isn't readily apparent, I take a piece of carbon paper and lay it on the cavity and jamb the lid in there. I just want to see whats going on in below deck, and the color transfer makes it pretty clear.
Robby

[Acer Saccharum]

I don't like a patchbox lid to make a tight seal. It will surely bind in some seasons.