Chambers English Fowler

[bob in the woods]

Kit was copied from an original gun " made in 1762 by William Bennett ", per Chamber's description.
Described as an officer's fusil /English fowler  .  I built mine without the carving, left the lock panels plain [ as per BS9 in Grinslade's book ] cherry stock, and at Barbie's suggestion, took as much wood off as I dared. 
I really look forward to what Feltwad has to say. since I plan on attempting another of these .

[smart dog]

Hi Feltwad,
You did not ruffle feathers just piqued our curiosity to know the details of what is correct.  No "rattled cages", no jealousies, no hurt feelings.  I prefer blunt unambiguous speech and I am sure Mitch does as well.  I am building a garniture of English rifle and fowler from the 1750s-1760.  I am basing my work on an original London-made gun in hand.  My original looks very similar to Mitch's gun although there certainly are a few differences.  Some of those differences are:

1. the hump at the breech is higher to accommodate the sighting groove on the standing breech.
2. the crescent of the buttplate is greater
3. the bottom of the butt stock has a little more arc.
4. the thinnest portion of the wrist is just before the comb, which gives a very elegant profile.
5. the hand grip area of the forestock tapers significantly toward the rear ramrod thimble
6. the finish is glossier, more varnish like
7.  the color is a much darker reddish brown

Are those some elements that you are thinking of?  I think we would all like to learn.

dave          

[Acer Saccharum]

We are drifting away from the appreciation of Mitch's fine workmanship.

Tom

[smart dog]

You are right Tom,
The emphasis is on "fine workmanship" with respect to Mitch's gun.

dave

[bob in the woods]

As I said previously, this is a very nicely made gun. I especially like the the understated elegance. The breach on these is massive, and yet this has a very slim looking profile.

[Gaeckle]

We are drifting away from the appreciation of Mitch's fine workmanship.

Tom

We're not drifting at all......I think the gun and workmanship are great.......as do the majoriy of this thread, but there is this comment without explanation that has me (probably some others) awash in a mild state of confusion.

Being a resident full time in a state of confusion, I am just hoping that there would be some explanation so as I can be enlightened and learn and then proclaim loudly ( mostly to Mrs. Gaeckle) that I am not that all confused about everything and alas, I can say: "And now I know".

We all live with hopes and dreams.......

[bama]

Looking good Mitch..

[BOB HILL]

Mitch, this is an outstanding gun. You should be very proud of it. Very classy work. I love everything about it.          Bob

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

I built a gun with a similar piece of walnut but it certainly does not show off the grain the way this one does. I would love to know how you did that Mitch.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

These are the best images of a finished gun from Chamber's English fowler kit I've seen, and I think too, the nicest workmanship.  We've seen lots of examples of the Pennsylvania fowler; I have one myself, but this one really catches my interest.

One of the rules up here in the Great White North, for smoothbore round ball competition, is that the gun must have no sighting 'device' "above the plane of the barrel".  That would disqualify a fowler made with a hump breech tang and sighting groove, whereas Mitch's gun is completely acceptable.

I like you gun a lot Mitch.

[little joe]

Mitch that looks great to me. I guess I,m going to stay ignorant as Feltwad will not help to educate me.   Joe

[Acer Saccharum]

Guys, you can't shame someone into sharing their knowledge.

[Feltwad]

Guys, you can't shame someone into sharing their knowledge.

Moderator Yes you are correct  but the attitude taken by some why bother to explain .
Feltwad

[Robby]

Must be cabin fever is having it's effects.
Another great gun Mitch!!!!!
Learning is one of life's greatest joys.
Robby

[Meteorman]

Guys, you can't shame someone into sharing their knowledge.

Amen.  It's a voluntary venue here. Works both ways.


Mitch -  not much to add beyond what's been said ! 
     That gun is da bomb.
     Thanks for lettin' me handle it in Lewisburg.   

 

[Ky-Flinter]

Feltwad,

Does the attitude of those who sincerely want and requested to "hear" your explanation not count? 

If you don't want those with poor attitudes to "hear", may I suggest the use of the Personal Message function to those that asked for your input.

-Ron

[tallbear]

Wow, I never imagined posting a Chamber's fowler would cause such a stir.Once again thanks for all the kind words they are appreciated and Feltwad sorry this has seemed to snowball.As I said I am open to your comments(and anyone elses) but will respect your wishes if you choose not to comment ,either way is fine with me.I had fun with this fowler and it pushed me to improve my engraving which was really something I want to work on.I am pleased with my efforts and the customer is also happy.Hopefully he will have many happy hunts with it and I look forward to making more and better fowlers in the future.Now if we could lets all move on to disscusions about the fowler.

I was asked about the finish.To be honest some of it is God's work as the wood is pretty nice English Walnut,it acuutually looks better in person as the photos look a little washed out due to the snow on the ground I think.Rather than staining it with aqua-fortis as I have been doing with American walnut I chose not to use any stain.After whiskering it for the last time I did not knock down the whiskers as I normally do(seems like you never get them all with walnut) I then applied my seal coat of seed lack with the whiskers proud.This make the whiskers ridged.Then using a gray scotch bright pad and the final finish(Tried and True Varnish oil )I wet sanded the stock allowing the dust to fill the open pores.Then for the next couple of coats of finish I mulled in some ground pigments and repeated the process till the grain was filled.Once the grain was filled I just used straight Tried and True with no pigment for several more coats.Once that was done I scrubbed the whole gun using a toothbrush and rottenstone and oil to knock the shineyness back.

Glad to answer any other questions anyone might have!!

Mitch Yates

[Feltwad]

Mitch

Good  luck with any future  builds  but stick too the period concerned you have the skills  so use them to that advantage  and will improve your work , always remember you are always learning
Feltwad
PS You can send me a personal  message

[satwel]

Thank you for posting your wonderful work. I am building one these fowlers and your excellent photos combined with the description of your finishing technique is very helpful. Yours is the best example of this kit that I've come across on the web and I appreciate you sharing it with the forum.

[Mike Brooks]

Well, this has taken an interesting turn. I know the architecture is good as it was duplicarved directly off an original. So, that leaves something else...I must first state I really like this gun. The carving can't be picked at, as english as it comes for that time period. The engraving seems more "John Schippers" inspired than english...that's been a problem with alot of contemporary work since John's book came out, but it's well executed. Original english nick and dot borders aren't cut using the Schippers technique. The floral decoration also has more Schippers influence than English. All of the engraving is well executed and  designed but this might be what's bothering feltwad. Also,he would probably like to see a hooked breech and keys which most english guns had.....I hate fitting hooked breeches and keys so I rarely use them myself, right or wrong.
 That is about as nitt picky as I can get for such a well done gun, and I really hated to pick that hard at it.
 I'd hate to hear what he has to say about my english fowling guns!

[alex e.]

Very nicely done!

[tallbear]

The engraving seems more "John Schippers" inspired than english...

You have a good eye Mike (but then we knew that   ) it is indeed the Schippers technique and is the first thing a friend who is an engraver picked out when I asked him what he thought.It's also probably what Jerry H. picked up when he said it was'nt quite English.It is a good point and I  may do it differently next time.My friends opinion also was that the engraving was too bold overall as opposed to English work ,which is another good point.Tough to overcome my German DNA   .The floral decoration is a composite of two different fowlers.Some elements were taken from this fowler here on the ALR http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=6601.0 and another earlier fowler I photographed on a recent trip to Williamsburg.
Good points Mike thanks!!!

Mitch

[Bill-52]

Mitch,

I've been admiring your fowler for the past few days -- wish I had made it to Lewisburg and seen it in person.  I was particularly drawn to the finish on the barrel and lock.  Can you tell us how you achieved that?

Bill

[Mike Brooks]

The engraving seems more "John Schippers" inspired than english...

You have a good eye Mike (but then we knew that   ) it is indeed the Schippers technique and is the first thing a friend who is an engraver picked out when I asked him what he thought.It's also probably what Jerry H. picked up when he said it was'nt quite English.It is a good point and I  may do it differently next time.My friends opinion also was that the engraving was too bold overall as opposed to English work ,which is another good point.Tough to overcome my German DNA   .The floral decoration is a composite of two different fowlers.Some elements were taken from this fowler here on the ALR http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=6601.0 and another earlier fowler I photographed on a recent trip to Williamsburg.
Good points Mike thanks!!!

Mitch

Just like the House bros with their creation of the Woodbury school John Schippers has created the Schippers school of engraving. He has a very distinctive styling. I have been familiar with John's work for 30 years having close association with Conner Prairie. Don Getz called him " The best unknown engraver in existence". Once John's book come out his style spread like wildfire which is really a compliment on John's ability as an artist and engraver.
 As I said before, everything is well executed, it's hard to pick on a gun like that. I'm well aware my work isn't any better than yours.

[jerrywh]

 Tall Bear.
  Just to be more specific. In my opinion the engraving you did looks very good. Especially if you did the lettering on the lock plate. The roman letters are the hardest type to do.  The nick and dot borders look real good and are a lot better than most of the original English guns I have seen.
 The part that doesn't look like English is the floral designs. The execution looks very good. My guess is that you have probably not seen too many early English guns.  No reflection on your ability what so ever. Unfortunately most of the good English gun books are very expensive.