Stuck tight breech plug

[FlintFan]

The vise you hold the barrel in, is just as, if not more important than the wrench you use.  The vast majority of common bench vises are not up to the task.  When you apply a large amount of torque with a wrench the barrel will undoubtedly twist in the vise jaws and become horribly marred.  

If you know anyone with a milling machine with a vise bolted to the table, ask if you can hold your barrel in it as you remove the plug.  After using a mill vise once to remove a stubborn plug, you will never do it any other way.  If it is a swamped or tapered barrel just be sure to use brass or copper shims before tightening the vise.  

[Jerry V Lape]

Posted this before but the issue of holding a barrel in a vise without marring the barrel and with a secure grip  I resolved by making a tool to hold each specific barrel.  I take two matching pieces of hard maple about 2X4X4 and hollow out the center of each so the barrel will fit inside with some space on all sides.  Then I put enough bondo in each half to fill in around the barrel, wrap the barrel in plastic wrap and clamp the two blocks together in place around the barrel until the next morning.  The two blocks and bondo will securely hold the barrel even in a relatively small vise without damaging the barrel.  Mark the blocks so you know which barrel they fit. 

[Robby]

I made a couple jaw liners out of copper, about 1/16" or less, certainly not more. I might get a little copper smearing on the barrel once and a while bit it comes right off.
Robby

[kutter]

I will use the bench vise on occasion to hold the bbl for breech plug removal, but if it doesn't come right out, I move over to my bbl vise.

In the bench vise a set of wooden jaws w/a V cut lengthwise will suffice most times to hold a M/L bbl secure. You need something other than just the vise jaws clamping down on the opposing flats of an oct bbl in most cases. The bbl will roll right out of the bench vise on you with likely damage to the bbl otherwise.

Wooden blocks/jaws made up specially for the bbl as described above work the best. Cast the bbl profile in epoxy. Use a bit of rosin on the round bbls  (sugar works pretty well too) to prevent slipping.  Holding the bbl upright or at an angle in a bench vise with these block jaws works good as the vise jaw spans the block.

Sometimes I cast the blocks from lead. A simple box mould made of turned up copper sheet w/a cut out at each end to allow the bbl to lay down in the 'block' a bit. A simple pour of two of these for one bbl yields a very nice set of never scratch jaws.
Set them down less then 1/2 their dia so you have some draw avail when in use.
Pure lead is too soft I've found as it extrudes when tightened down in a bbl vise,loosening as you work.
Regular bullet mix works fine.



A bbl vise is easy to make w/a couple pieces of 1/2 to 3/4 flat stock steel and 4 sturdy bolts to draw the top plate down upon the bottom plate w/your wooden block jaws in betw. Bolt the entire thing to the far end of your bench facing lengthwise. Out of the way but with the room to use it when needed.

A wrench of  two pieces of 5/8 or even 1" square stock and two bolts.  The 'handle' about 12+inches long,,the jaw piece about 5".  Make the holes in the jaw piece loose enough so the jaw can be tightened down at an angle onto the slant sided breech plugs and other less then square shapes.
 Keep a cheater bar of a piece of steelpipe to slide over the end of the wrench handle if needed to break things free.
A piece of copper or brass between the plug and wrench prevents marring.

With the above wrench, bbl vise, wooden & lead jaw/blocks and a few odd adaptor plates and shims made as needed,, over the years I've removed and replaced countless center fire rifle bbls Military & commercial, shotgun magazine tubes, bbl extensions, pistol and revolver bbls,,and M/L breech plugs.


Simple hook wrenches,  cresent tools and the like can be used but they usually mar the breech plug up and just don't have the control of a tight fitting tool like the above.  You have to put the plug back in later on and would like to have the same sturdy set up to ease the plug back in to it's witness mark.

Just some thoughts

[moleeyes36]

Heat it red hot and let it cool all the way. It will probably come out easy then.  It doesn't hurt a black powder barrel to heat it at the breech as long as you don't cool it by quenching. 

Jerry, as you suggested, I heated the breech end of the barrel red hot with my map gas and small propane torch combined.  I let it cool while I was out buying an eighteen inch pipe wrench as plan "B".  When I got back it unscrewed as soon as I touched it with the wrench, just from the weight of the wrench.  No fuss and no muss.   That’s a trick I will definitely remember.  Thanks.

Mole Eyes

[ratfacedmcdougal]

When vintage metal ferrules on fishing rods got really stuck, we would pack the ferrules with ice for a couple hours, time enough for both the male and female to be super cold and then lightly heat the female. The male would still be contracted while female would expand enough to get them apart. If you salt the ice it will get the whole mess even colder. Don't have a clue if it would work on breech plugs or not.
RFMcD

[Long John]

Flint,

This is how I do it.

First I take a piece of .040 brass sheet stock and make vice jaw protectors that are as wide as the vise jaws.

Then I mount the barrel horizontally in the vise so that the entire jaw surface is protected from the barrel with my jaw protectors and then I tighten the vise as tight as I can get it.

I use a 16" adjustable wrench (or the tool that John Getz sold me 3 years ago) and I place the wrench on the tang plug so that the jaws do NOT extend all the way to the top flat.

Put a piece of pipe on the wrench handle and use a 3 pound lump hammer on the wrench handle while keeping pressure on the wrench like Dennis suggested.

Lastly I repeat to myself very quietly so no one else will hear: "Lefty loosey, righty tighty."

This process often works better for me when I adjust the order of these steps, by it always has worked.

Best Regards,

John Cholin

[Turtle]

  I bought some nifty aluminum vice inserts from Brownels years ago. Each is 3 sided to clamp octagon barrels. Don't know if they still have them though.
                                             Turtle

[shifty]

  Hey moleeyes 36, Want to see something nice,just go to Jerrys site look at the Vigilance rifle and the Durrs Egg Iroquois Chief rifle and well all of them.

[Angus]

Is the white residue the remains of Loctite?

[moleeyes36]

Is the white residue the remains of Loctite?

I don't know, but it certainly came bubbling out of when the breech end started to get really hot.

Mole Eyes

[jerrywh]

 Mole Eyes

Works for me every time.
 Shifty.   I will put a new gun on my web site as soon as I figure out how.  Yahoo Changed their site builder and I have to learn a new system. I am so busy building and engraving I don't have time to learn a new site builder.  

[Turtle]

 I put blue locktite on all my breechplugs and liners. This acts as a sealer to keep crud out and a anti-seize.  I have removed breechplugs I put in 20 years ago with no problem.
                                                            Turtle

[Mike_StL]

New to the forum and my first post.  Didn't want to post unless I felt I could contribute.

I have used the Dixie Gun Works Breech Plug Wrench MT-1405.  Its a copy of an antique gunsmithing tool from an Appalachian  shop.  Basically its a steel bar of square stock bent to accommodate two breech plug sizes.  I wrap a strib of leather in the wrench and use the techniques you call out for loosening a breech plug.  Yes, qa steady vise with some sort of insert to protect the barrel is needed.
Glad you were able to remove the breech plug.

[Scota4570]

I totally agree on the real barrel vice, advice.  I made my first one with two big pieces of steel and a couple of 1/2" NF bolts.  I now use a 30 ton hydrolic press.   A machinist vice is asking for trouble.  You just can't get it tight enough to prevent slipping with a very tight plug.  On modern cartridge guns the set up  described is an absolute must. 

I also endorse maple blocks fitted to the barrel.  Finally, use some rosin on the maple blocks.  Get a little block of violin rosin.  Scrap off some powder onto the blocks.  It will make a huge difference. 

Once you have it secure enough to put real torque on the wrench you can use hammer blows to jar it loose.  Lean on the cheater bar and give the wrench or plug end smart wackes with a hammer.  This works like an impact wrench.  It now is a two person job. 

All that being said.  There is no reason to ever put a ML plug so tight as to require a 30 ton press, rosined maple blocks and a fitted wrench with a cheater bar. 

[moleeyes36]

I've never had a breech plug that I couldn't remove with a large wrench, a good vise, and some muscle prior to this one.  There have been many good suggestions here on different ways to apply great force and leverage in removing a breech plug, and I'm sure they all work well. 

All I can say is the next time you have a breech plug to remove, you might consider trying Jerry's method of heating it to cherry red and then letting it cool before you use the brute force method.  It worked amazingly well on getting the stuck plug out of the barrel I had without forcing it at all.  Just sayin'.

Mole Eyes