What Is This ?

[Feltwad]

Went to my local auction yesterday here in the UK and bought the following of which I have little experience .The gun was one of four and advertised has a Plains Rifle  for which I have doubts it has a 31inch octagonal 50 calibre barrel with a 7 grove twist and measures 1.1/4 inches across the flats , Buck horn sight with a blade fore sight. The stock is maple  no cheek piece , set triggers, percussion lock
Feltwad

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[Dave B]

The rifle certainly has the look of a plains rifle. Massive barrel how ever so more for target shooting than lugging across the plains? Any marks on the barrel if you have had it out? It looks to be in pretty good shape, great find.

[Dan'l 1946]

  Basically, these were horsemen's rifles. Carried across the pommel, the weight wouldn't have been a factor. And it could be a target rifle, tho the simple sights are more apt to be found on a hunting rifle. It looks like a great find regardless.
                                                            Dan

[Feltwad]

Dave 
There are no marks on the barrel , no cheek piece  .
Feltwad

[Dan'l 1946]

  Do you have a close up of the lock? Does it have any markings inside the lock?
                                                        Dan

[Feltwad]

  Do you have a close up of the lock? Does it have any markings inside the lock?
                                                        Dan

Give me a day and I will remove the lock and photograph
Feltwad

[Dan'l 1946]

Thanks.

[JTR]

Feltwad, Neat rifle, and to me it looks like one typical made in the 1840s / 1860s.
The extra big barrel and the buckhorn sight certainly give it that Plains Rifle look, and it probably is a Western made ( West of the Mississippi) rifle, so certainly would be considered as a Plains Rifle. By that time period there was little use for a 50 cal back east, but still plenty of big game out west. The Buckhorn was also an out west type of sight.
 
No cheek piece is a bit unusual, but not unheard of. Is there any signs of a cheek piece having been there originally? Also, I wonder if there's any indication that the barrel has been shortened from the breech end, as 31 inches seems a bit short.

Dave B mentioned the possibility of a target rifle, and that possible, but I'd think probably not. I think it's just a big barreled gun made for heavy loads. Today's rifles tend to be on the lighter side, but several of my old Kentucky's weigh in at 10 to 12 pounds so I don't think that weight was as much an issue as today. Consider that most western guys were used to manual labor and weren't fat and out of shape couch potato's like a lot of people today, so lugging what we think of as a heavy rifle wasn't that big of deal.
I doubt you'll find any markings inside the lock, but there might be a barrel makers name stamped on one of the under side flats of the barrel back near the breech. An inside picture of the lock works would be interesting, and show what quality the rifle was originally built too.

All in all it looks like a pretty nice rifle, and any addition pictures would be appreciated! And I'll be it went pretty inexpensively over your way!

John    

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Very cool rifle!  I once restocked a similar rifle that was ~ .40 cal. and the barrel measured 1 3/8" AF at the breech, with a very gentle taper to the muzzle.  This rifle was stocked in Black Walnut though, had an Eastern Seaboard trigger guard, butt plate, and cheek piece, and several un-engraved German Silver inlays.  But I'm of the same opinion about your rifle Feltwad - I think it's a plains rifle.

[hanshi]

From what little I've learned about the subject, I'd have to say it sure does look like a plains rifle to me.  That barrel, though, is a real Hoss. 

[Feltwad]

I have enclosed images of the lock which I must say is not of the best but it works ,there are no markings also enclosed is reverse side of the gun which shows no cheek piece.
Feltwad

[WadePatton]

Wow, that bbl strikes me as horribly short, but then--it's hefty.  Those guns are yet outside of my area of knowledge, but thanks for sharing. 

[gibster]

The barrel may have been shortened to carry under the seat in a buggy or wagon.  The weight wouldn't have mattered then either.

[Feltwad]

The rifling shows a 3/4 turn in barrel length {31inches}
Feltwad

[JTR]

That lock is actually pretty nice for the time, but is also missing the original main spring.
As for the barrel, if you figure the rifle originally had three RR thimbles, if you extrapolate it out, you're missing about 12 inches of barrel. Looks like an extra 12 inches would also put the rear sight pretty much over the rear ramrod pipe, where you'd expect it to be. At least according to what I can do on my computer screen. Lugging another 12 inches of 1 1/4" diameter barrel around would no doubt turn into a burden pretty quickly!

John 

[longrifle]

It looks like a plain's rifle 1840 - 1850 very nice great score.

[Feltwad]

To all those that answered this tread your information was appreciated ,thank you
Feltwad

[Feltwad]

What may be of interest to some  this 50 cal plains type percussion rifle is now entered in the Holts  October 2015 Sealed Bid  Sale ,Lot 2275
Feltwad

[Hungry Horse]

 California made rifle often lack a cheek rest , and often have short barrels. I have also examined two serviorly damaged rifles similar to this one. One was made by Andrew Werflein, and the other one was made Edward Tryon, They both had very short heavy barrels, that appeared to be of original length. One was .50 cal. And the other was .58 cal. Like this gun neither one showed saddle wear on the forearm. I suspect they  were buggy guns. OBTW, the Werflein had no cheek rest.

    Hungry Horse

[Feltwad]

For those interested this gun sold for £580 sterling plus commission at Holts Auction  UK.
Feltwad

[Bob Roller]

It looks like a "plains"rifle but I think it was made here in the Eastern USA. The short barrel made it easier to carry thru bushes and on horse back. I have seen a number of these barrels in Bill Large's shop back in the days when he was recutting (rerifling) this type and other antiques.
I restocked one of these for E.M.Farris in the late 1950's,probably about 1958 in black walnut using the parts he had.

Bob Roller

[hudson]

Not being a expert my thought mite be out of place but here goes. First with a drum and nipple and general style mite it be an Ohio rifle modified for western use. Last except for breach and if tapered barrel I think California rifle.