Double Ranging

[WadePatton]

Ok, sometimes i have a good idea.  This time I think it's the concept of always shooting two ranges (or more).  Saves time and powder-maybe a LOT of time and powder. 

Build frames to hold your targets that are clear of heavy obstructions (don't want to punch plywood between ranges), set targets at two ranges such that balls hit both targets.  Get your 25 and 50 groups simultaneously, or any other pair or triple...go nuts.

Also, as i have thought before, one could calculate his velocity from the observed drop on simul-targets.  Of course the heights of the targets should be carefully regulated in this endeavor.  But then actual drop is all you really need to know.

I'm quite over my "need to know" every last detail (like calculated velocity or other silly numbers), but do like the idea of double ranging the groups.  Like--say you shot a one-holer at 50, wouldn't you like to see what that exact, no-flier group looked like at 100?  Well now you can. 

[smokinbuck]

It must be awfully cold at your place Wade.You have much to much time on your hands. Then again it would cost half as much, in round ball, to find out twice as much!
Mark

[WadePatton]

It must be awfully cold at your place Wade.You have much to much time on your hands. Then again it would cost half as much, in round ball, to find out twice as much!
Mark

took my boots off at 8, time to ruminate and let them dogs rest. 

It has been a nasty cold brute of a winter (for many of us i'm sure), but hey it's supposed to be above freezing until WED!  That's a big break for us, hope others feel some relief too.  I'll be padding the woodpile yet.  Making firewood has taken over my free time almost completely.

[Larry Pletcher]

Back in the '70s Don Kammerer from Indiana did this.  IIRC he placed targets at 25, 50, 75, 100 yards.  They were set with a transit to make the x rings coincide.  His purpose was to deal with the drop in poi over these distances.  A friend, Steve Chapman, lived near by and may have helped with this.  For some time Don kept the targets as a reference.  Since his passing, I have no idea where his results might be or if they were saved.

Don was a rifle maker with a booth at Friendship.  He made my first custom gun.  He was also a fine shot, having some colorful matches with Don Davis, another Friendship old timer.  Kammerer did a bunch of work with CVA when the CVA Mountain Rifle introduced.

Regards,
Pletch

[WadePatton]

Thanks Pletch, I did expect that someone had done such before.

Nothin' new, i do realize. But I reckon that elevation is irrelevant for group sizes, so it should yet be a real time/consumables saver for accuracy testing.

[Old Ford2]

Good Idea!
It would be relatively easy to set up with one of these laser lights, if done in the evening.
Poke a small pin hole in the center of the first target, then set up the distant target where the laser light points through the first target hole.
Why didn't I think of shooting both targets at the one time  
Question: Would you think it would have serious considerations on the ball's impact point at 100 yds. after touching paper at 25 yds.  
Fred

[Majorjoel]

"My Broder kilt two deer once with just one shot"   

[Bob Roller]

Back in the '70s Don Kammerer from Indiana did this.  IIRC he placed targets at 25, 50, 75, 100 yards.  They were set with a transit to make the x rings coincide.  His purpose was to deal with the drop in poi over these distances.  A friend, Steve Chapman, lived near by and may have helped with this.  For some time Don kept the targets as a reference.  Since his passing, I have no idea where his results might be or if they were saved.

Don was a rifle maker with a booth at Friendship.  He made my first custom gun.  He was also a fine shot, having some colorful matches with Don Davis, another Friendship old timer.  Kammerer did a bunch of work with CVA when the CVA Mountain Rifle introduced.

Regards,
Pletch

 Didn't Don Kammerer also make some fine miniature rifles as well?

 Bob Roller

[David R. Pennington]

I knew an old fellow who would bait squirrels with corn and not shoot until two or more were at the bait at once so he could save shot. He had a large family to feed.

[JPK]

Read "the Bullets Flight" by Doctor Mann. He did this same thing to the extreme around 1900 with Harry Pope barrels.  Testing rifling twist and bullet shape and much more.

[WadePatton]

Good Idea!
It would be relatively easy to set up ...
Question: Would you think it would have serious considerations on the ball's impact point at 100 yds. after touching paper at 25 yds.  
Fred

I don't think that a bit of paper will affect the flight of the balls much more than high humidity or heavy cold air or any myriad of the minute factors affecting it.

One can simply shoot and see.

Methinks that the beauty of this is sighting on the front target (you know the one we can SEE  ).  Better sight picture is key to better target results.

Read "the Bullets Flight" by Doctor Mann. He did this same thing to the extreme around 1900 with Harry Pope barrels.  Testing rifling twist and bullet shape and much more.

Yeah, as I said above, Nothing New Under the Sun.  I didn't claim any originality of the idea, but am simply sharing the idea so others might employ it-now to their own direct benefit.

This is about testing a load at two or more ranges at one time-getting more "work" done at the range for just a little different approach.  Saving time and powder/lead/patch/cleaning.  Should give anyone who tries it a better understanding of his gun and loads-quicker. 

I do realize that this may not be feasible at public ranges.  But for us Yayhoos who can shoot off the back porch or out on our back forty...

Just wait 'til I get this woodpile made back up. 

[Daryl]

Good Idea!
It would be relatively easy to set up ...
Question: Would you think it would have serious considerations on the ball's impact point at 100 yds. after touching paper at 25 yds.  
Fred

I don't think that a bit of paper will affect the flight of the balls much more than high humidity or heavy cold air or any myriad of the minute factors affecting it.

One can simply shoot and see.

Methinks that the beauty of this is sighting on the front target (you know the one we can SEE   ).  Better sight picture is key to better target results.

Read "the Bullets Flight" by Doctor Mann. He did this same thing to the extreme around 1900 with Harry Pope barrels.  Testing rifling twist and bullet shape and much more.

Yeah, as I said above, Nothing New Under the Sun.  I didn't claim any originality of the idea, but am simply sharing the idea so others might employ it-now to their own direct benefit.

This is about testing a load at two or more ranges at one time-getting more "work" done at the range for just a little different approach.  Saving time and powder/lead/patch/cleaning.  Should give anyone who tries it a better understanding of his gun and loads-quicker.  

I do realize that this may not be feasible at public ranges.  But for us Yayhoos who can shoot off the back porch or out on our back forty...

Just wait 'til I get this woodpile made back up.  

 - Dr. Man may read Forsyth's book as well.  Those of you who have, will remember that Lt. James Forsyth also gives directions on doing exactly this, from 20 to 100yards to chart the ball's flight with suggested powder charges. The book was written in 1858, published in 1860 or 1861.

[Larry Pletcher]

Didn't Don Kammerer also make some fine miniature rifles as well?
 Bob Roller

Hi Bob,
Yes he did.  The one I saw was a miniature Ruger No. 1, but he did a number IIRC.
Regards,
Pletch

[JTR]

Fred, Set up the most distant target first with the laser, then set up the close target,,, no pinhole needed. 
John

[Jerry V Lape]

Probably don't need a laser to set the targets up.  As suggested above set up most distant first.  Use a scope sighted rifle set up in a horizontal gun vise and set the vise to line up the cross hairs on the bullseye.  Then line up the intermediate targets in place without moving the vise, each positioned to be aligned with the fixed cross hairs.  I suggest this method as something most shooters could probably arrange with their existing gun equipment.

[WadePatton]

Yeah, I'm just going to "wing it" with my rifle and some paper.  No lasers and scopes and vises, (oh my!).  Little target/big target: eyeball it, shoot and adjust as necessary.  First shot is low/slow anyways.  

Heckfire, i've read so much through the years that maybe even I read it before, BUT-i've not done it or heard folks talk about actually doing it.  Now is the time (when the rain lets up) to change all that.

Who is going to be first?  I could probably set up a 25/50 out my back window (i don't really have a back porch).

[Dphariss]

Back in the '70s Don Kammerer from Indiana did this.  IIRC he placed targets at 25, 50, 75, 100 yards.  They were set with a transit to make the x rings coincide.  His purpose was to deal with the drop in poi over these distances.  A friend, Steve Chapman, lived near by and may have helped with this.  For some time Don kept the targets as a reference.  Since his passing, I have no idea where his results might be or if they were saved.

Don was a rifle maker with a booth at Friendship.  He made my first custom gun.  He was also a fine shot, having some colorful matches with Don Davis, another Friendship old timer.  Kammerer did a bunch of work with CVA when the CVA Mountain Rifle introduced.

Regards,
Pletch

Forsythe did it in the 1850s.
For best  the targets must be all at the same elevation IE leveled in relation to each other and the gun.

Dan

[JTR]

I could probably set up a 25/50 out my back window (i don't really have a back porch).

Lucky you! If I tried that here, the SWAT team would be kicking in the door asap, choppers overhead, and high-lights at 6pm!
John

[shifty]

  Do you have a Builders Level?

[longcruise]

"My Broder kilt two deer once with just one shot"   

Did he.line em up with a laser?

[WadePatton]

  Do you have a Builders Level?

I'm personally not really concerned with elevation changes once i "connect" both targets, but only group sizes.  My deers never are

on the level

with me nohows.   

But I do have a clinometer which will be plenty akkurate for my purposes if i decide to get fancy. Y'all do it your way and we can all compare notes and targets this year.