"Dulling" a Permayln finish?

[PKLeRay]

I would like to decrease the shininess Of Permayln.  Peter Alexander recommends a final rub with boiled linseed oil but I cannot stand the stuff. Any other ways?

[Ray Barbarow]

Just did this on Sat. using 0000 steel wool.

[PKLeRay]

Isn't that too dull?

[Robby]

I have used 0000 steel wool in the past to dull a finish, applied a good past wax afterward and it gives it a nice soft finish. Today, if I am going to dull it down I use pumice stone and a paraffin oil to knock down the shine, even using a tooth brush to dull it down in tight spots around carving and again finishing with a good paste wax. It is a lot less harsh than steel wool.
After experimenting with making my own finishes with information I received 'here' and there, I found that all old time finishes dry to a fairly hard glassy look, so mostly I leave them that way and let the natural handling and cleaning take its course. It doesn't take long for it to soften down.
Robby

[Turtle]

   I rub it with mink oil on fine steel wool. makes a "buttery" finish that I prefer.
                                                        Turtle

[Dphariss]

I would like to decrease the shininess Of Permayln.  Peter Alexander recommends a final rub with boiled linseed oil but I cannot stand the stuff. Any other ways?

Since you already have the stuff on the gun I suspect that 0000 steel wool will work but I would wet it with something like  hardware store boiled linseed oil (its not stock finish but will work to ease your labor and is then all wiped away). But rubbing back stained stocks is usually a mistake. Its all to likely that the stain will be eroded at the edges and elsewhere.

If you search through the older posts on the site you will find a considerable number of posts on stock finishes. A great many are in the "newer is better" category and some others in the "eye of Newt and frog eyelashes" category but there are some posts on how firearms were finished back in the day. For the most part "old" is far less labor intensive than "new and improved" or "eye of Newt".  When you use a modern high mineral spirits solvent content finish (60-70% solvent in this case) that is almost all or is all plastic once the solvent has evaporated then the user will after many coats, predictably, get a gun that looks like it was finished with plastic. If it's supposed to be "waterproof" it's almost sure to fail in some manner if the gun is actually used outdoors.
I would also point out that a even a fairly dull elastic linseed oil varnish  finish will "shine" just from handling. Varnish is intended to produce a shiny finish at some level after all. Note that back in the day "varnish" meant that the finish dried to a shine, some were oil based and some were spirit based such as Shellac.

Dan

[P.W.Berkuta]

Get yourself some "rottenstone" it is a fine powder used to rub back gloss finishes. Mix it with water or mineral oil to a loose past then rub it on the stock as if polishing the stock -- CAUTION - don't rub too hard or in one spot too long it will remove the finish before you know it. Do 5 or 6 strokes wipe off and see if this is the look you want if so continue on the rest of the stock - apply a paste wax when done.

[Ed Wenger]

As P.W. described...  I use paraffin oil from Woodcraft, sprinkle on some rottenstone, or fine pumice stone, and rub out with a felt pad.  If you have carving on the gun, use an old tooth brush instead of the felt pad to get into all the nooks & cranny's of the carving.


       Ed

[jerrywh]

 I have tried all the above. In my opinion the rottenstone works well but it is a lot of work. Like Dan I do not recommend using steel wool on stained maple stocks. It causes more problems. This is what I do and it works to help give a matte finish to the oil. It work with any oil finish. I let the previous finish dry first.  Take a piece of wood like similar to the stock you are finishing. If possible use the same wood as the stock.
  Sand it with some 600 grit or 1000 grit wet and dry in order to make a small amount of very fine dust.
 When you apply the oil to the stock with your finger just touch or dip your finger in the dust. This very fine dust will mix with the oil and give the finish a matte  look. With a small amount of practice you will be able to perfect this technique into a very nice finish. There will be no need to do any steel wooling or any thing else. You will not be able to see the dust in the oil.
   if you have ever used Tung oil from the hardware store notice tha the directions say shake well before using. It also has a slight whitish look.  That white tint is flattener. You can buy flattener on the web but only in large quantities. The dust does the same thing. I have also used silicone dioxide powder but it makes the finish look opaque. LOL  no charge.  

[PKLeRay]

Thanks a bunch guys. I have some experiment pieces of maple I will use. I'll start with the paraffin and rottenstone first. Oh and I'll post  some pictures of the finishrd gun. It's a fusil boucanier with a 48" bbl and curly maple stock.

[Jim Kibler]

Although I've used rottenstone at times, I prefer fine pumice.  The rottenstone is so fine, that it really doesn't do a great deal in my experience.

Jim

[Ed Wenger]

Thanks, Jerry!  Never heard of that before, will have to give it a try...



     Ed

[jerrywh]

Thanks, Jerry!  Never heard of that before, will have to give it a try...



     Ed

That is what is on this gun and a lot of the others on my website.
 http://jwh-flintlocks.net/jerry-2015-2.jpg
Bad photo I think.

[Ed Wenger]

Absolutely beautiful, on many levels...  and really like that finish!  Thanks for the photo!


          Ed

[PKLeRay]

Although I've used rottenstone at times, I prefer fine pumice.  The rottenstone is so fine, that it really doesn't do a great deal in my experience.

Jim

Thanks for the advice Jim. I will purchase both and play with them

[Dphariss]

Rottenstone is a POLISH and will usually brighten a dull finish. I would not use it to dull a finish. I used to use it as final polish on a finished Walnut stock.

Dan

[Dphariss]

The sanding dust thing is interesting.
Never thought of that.

Dan

[wmrike]

The problem I've always had with the steel wool business and other abrasive techniques is that 1) at some level it removes finish, and 2) with use, the finish just polishes out again.  Anyone else?

[Turtle]

No disrespect to you more experienced guys, but I'm curious why steel wool/mink oil shouldn't be used on Permlyn  finished maple stocks? Why just maple? I have done this dozens of times over the years with no problems.
                                           Turtle

[Nate McKenzie]

Birch Wood Casey rubbing compound used as directed works very good for me.

[eddillon]

Have you tried a rottenstone/mineral oil paste rubbed with a felt block?  I use this method to knock down gloss and also to give a nice final finish for metal parts that are going to be left "in the white".

[Dphariss]

No disrespect to you more experienced guys, but I'm curious why steel wool/mink oil shouldn't be used on Permlyn  finished maple stocks? Why just maple? I have done this dozens of times over the years with no problems.
                                           Turtle

For the reasons I stated.
Reposting would be pointless.

Dan

[eddillon]

Rottenstone is a POLISH and will usually brighten a dull finish. I would not use it to dull a finish. I used to use it as final polish on a finished Walnut stock.

Dan

It sure knocks back a glossy shine for me.

[Daryl]

Get yourself some "rottenstone" it is a fine powder used to rub back gloss finishes. Mix it with water or mineral oil to a loose past then rub it on the stock as if polishing the stock -- CAUTION - don't rub too hard or in one spot too long it will remove the finish before you know it. Do 5 or 6 strokes wipe off and see if this is the look you want if so continue on the rest of the stock - apply a paste wax when done.

good suggestion - this is what I use - rotten-stone - ground, almost dust-fine pumice- feels very soft and does a fine job without scratches. I use it dry on flannelette patch- easy to control and wipe off- an air compressor also works wonders in carving for removing the powder.

[B Shipman]

All this is way to much work.

Never use anything on a rag. You'll get super dull and nothing. It looks awfull.

You can use 4-0 steel wool between coats, but not to finish. Carefull. l

Use either fine pumice and oil or rottenstone and oil on a toothbrush. Scrub it and wipe it off with a soft  teeshirt. The pumice is more aggressive and thus duller. I use rottenstone most of the time. Using water instead of the oil is even more aggressive. Just never use a rag to apply it. Tooth brush or any stiff brush.

Finally finish with one last coat that is wiped off or a little wax.