ramrod hole

[dmb25]

i recently just got done inletting a barrel that is tapered and round in the front and octagon in back and now im ready to stet up to drill ramrod hole and was wondering if do to the fact that its alot thicker in the back if hole should be angled to keep parallel with the barrel or if i should just drill strait and make a thicker web   

[smallpatch]

The thinner the web, the more slender the rifle.  I've gone as low as 1/16" at the breech. 

[Tom Currie]

Ideally your web in the lower forestock should be only thick enough to get a barrel lug and a front lock bolt between the barrel and the RR hole.  I pin my barrel lugs as close to the barrel as possible, this allows you to have only 1/8 lug or maybe a tad more depending on your comfort level. Keep the wood below the RR hole minimal and you'll be on your way to having slim longrifle.

[dmb25]

thanks I probably will give my self a little extra space just do to the fact its my first time drilling a ramrod hole. if you have any other hints with drilling the ramrod hole it would be much appreciated 

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Don't try it with a twist drill brazed to the end of a rod...it'll not go straight - almost guaranteed.  I bought a set of deep hole ramrod drills from TOW and have never missed since...love 'em.  And they cut about 1/64" oversize so a standard rod fits, but then, who ever uses a standard diameter rod?

[gwill]

I'll second the comment about the Track drills. I drilled my first one in a piece of curly ash with one of their drills. After studying it for days and taking all sorts of precautions I gave myself just a little room in case I missed the mark. It couldn't have wound up any closer to where I aimed it. 

[Mark Elliott]

Don't try it with a twist drill brazed to the end of a rod...it'll not go straight - almost guaranteed.  I bought a set of deep hole ramrod drills from TOW and have never missed since...love 'em.  And they cut about 1/64" oversize so a standard rod fits, but then, who ever uses a standard diameter rod?

I have found that a good way to get a hole started with less runout, is to take an older one of those TOW ramrod drills and regrind the end slightly beveled back from the cutting edge so that the bit cuts only at the outside of the drill bit.   That way, the bit won't have as much tendency to run up on any little lip at the entrance to the ramrod hole.   Of course, the most important thing in drilling a ramrod hole is to make sure that the ramrod groove is perfectly parallel to the center of the bore.   1/32" off from one end of the ramrod groove to the other is enough to cause big problems.   

[kaintuck]

9" BLIND HOLE..........
do what Mark said~ and clean the bit every 1/4"....otherwise it COULD make it wander  off............

take it slow, enjoy the journey~

marc n tomtom

[Dphariss]

Like Taylor said. Twist bits are too flexible to drill straight.

Dan

[dmb25]

thanks for all the advice i was thinking about using a twist drill but i will definitely use a different method. hears a picture of the gun at its current state

[Stophel]

Am I the only one that H A T E S the straight flute Track of the Wolf ramrod drill?  Squalls, gets tight, it's horrible.  Oh, and it most definitely can go off.  A great deal.  I've had better success (though hardly 100%) with the "Brad tip" drill I got from Muzzleloader Builders Supply some time ago.

There is no gunsmithing task  I dread more, or curse more than drilling ramrod holes.

I've been shooting for about 1/8" of "web" at the breech end of the barrel.  Now, since the muzzle is thinner, if you made the hole parallel to the bore, the "web" at the muzzle will be larger, depending upon the muzzle size.  Sometimes this would make for an overly thick-looking "web" at the muzzle with an octagon to round barrel, where the muzzle is usually fairly small.  So, in order to keep it from having such a huge space between the barrel and rod at the muzzle, you can lay out the rod slightly tapered, a little closer to the bore center at the muzzle.  Only a little, though.  If the fore end is tapered too much, it will look horrible.  You just have to work it all out with what you've got.  I might have 1/8" of "web" at the rear, but 3/16" or 1/4", or even 5/16" at the front with a narrow-muzzled octagon to round barrel.  

[little joe]

I always shoot for 3/16 at the breech and if I,m off a 1/16 I can live with it.You can go at 1/16 as was done on some rifles but was this a mistake that the gunstocker was trying to work his way through? Possibly he would have preferred 1/8 to 3/16 so he would not have to notch the barrel and lock bolt. When I do a thin web it,s a workmanship failure on my part, and I,m just trying to make the best of a bad thing.

[Long John]

dmb,

I agree with Taylor and Mark!  I use the gun-barrel boring bits from TOW.  Yes they squeal a bit, although a little Butcher's wax helps a lot.  

I let the bit into the ramrod groove with as much care as the barrel above.  The ramrod bit should be parallel with the center-line of the bore.  I use soot on the bit to mark the high spots in the rr groove and scrape those down until I have good uniform contact between the bit and the grove.  As Mark so wisely said a 32nd inch error on the rr groove will turn into a 1/4th inch error in the location of the hole at the breech.  Invest quality time in getting the groove perfectly aligned with the barrel center-line and with uniform contact its entire length.

Next, be wary of clamping the drill too tightly in the rr groove.  I use one "keeper block" clamped about 6" from the rr entry to keep the drill aligned but the drill slides easily up and down the rr groove with the block in place.  If the keeper block is too tight it puts a bend in the drill bit and the rr hole will come out the bottom of the stock just in front of the TG.  (I have experimentally verified this assertion!)  Bore about 1/4th to 1/2 inch at a time, then withdraw the drill and clear out the chips.  Then bore another 1/4th to 1/2 inch.  I use a hand brace for the job.  That way I can hear just how much squeal I am getting and feel how much resistance I am getting.  

Too much squeal and resistance indicates that the drill is bending - not good!  If the drill starts to get hard to turn pull it out, let it cool and insert a dowel to see if your hole is veering.  Sometimes heavily curled wood will cause a veer but usually it is chips packed against the side of the drill.  If the hole begins to veer it can be straightened with a rr drill size steel rod that has a 2 or 3 degree 4-sided pyramid tip centered on the rod centerline.  I call this tool a "convincer".  I heat the convincer tip up red hot and quickly slide it into the rr hole and twist 180 degrees or so and then withdraw.  I repeat this step several times.  The hot tip will char the wood where it touches the end of the hole.  Rotating the convincer centers the char in the hole. DON'T OVER-HEAT YOUR STOCK!  Since the charred wood is much softer than uncharred wood this re-centers the path of least resistance for the boring bit.  The boring bit can then be used to continue the hole.  I have used this method several times to get back on track.

I hope the above is some help.

Best Regards,

John Cholin

[flehto]

I make the web on both the Bucks County and Lancaster LRs at 3/32" at the breech and 5/32" at the muzzle ..Lately I only make these 2 styles and both styles .using the stated web thicknesses, are very slim LRs.

Judging from the half dozen or so RR holes I've drilled {both 3/8" and 5/16"}, the twist drill brazed onto a length of drill rod has yielded RR holes that were spot on .  When making the RR drills, the drill shank was turned down in a lathe and the slightly press fit hole in the drill rod was also drilled in a lathe. After assembling, the 2 were brazed together w/ nearly zero runout.

Thought about what kind of "drill tip" I should use and thought that a flat bottom drill which is sorta like an end mill should produce the straightest hole...and I was correct, at least w/ my drilling.

A few years later paid a visit to Fred Miller and as he was showing me around, I noticed the drill point shape he used to drill his RR holes....the fact that he also used a flat bottom drill reinforced my decision.

Just butting the ends of the rod and drill and then brazing will not in many cases  produce a "straight" drill.

I no longer drill the RR holes and prefer to send out for that work, but do use the RR drills sometimes for slightly deepening the holes.

A flat bottom drill tip is very easy to sharpen in a "home workshop" , whereas  brad point or angled drill points require more skill. Most "shops" don't have a drill sharpening fixture.....Fred  

[Robby]

That's what i use Fred, a home made flat bottom drill. I have done more than a couple dozen with it. I did buy a TOW R/R drill and it is the only hole I've done where the drill wandered, my alignment was right, but I think it picked up a soft line in the grain and followed it. The flat bottom drill is very hard to push and I don't trust the TOW drill, though it is much easier to push, so now I use a combination of the two by going in a bit with the TOW drill and ensuring it is true by following up with my flat bottom drill, alternating to the end. I've never had a bad one using this method, or the flat bottom drill alone.
Robby

[Michigan Flinter]

 I use a bradpoint set up like Flehto"s the only thing different is that I inlet and pin my ramrod pipes than I use them for guides. Take your time and remove chips often .

[mikeyfirelock]

Been using the TOW drills with good success last few times.  Also, I use a bit and brace- not an electric drill, and lube the drill with beeswax.  Drill bout an inch or so, and pull and clean out, re-lube and drill another inch.  Works for me. As previously mentioned, the ramrod groove must be RIGHT before you start.  That is important. 
Mikeyfirelock

[David R. Pennington]

I use home made rammer hole drills with sharp brad point bit brazed on. I use two grooved clamp blocks and lube with mutton tallow and beeswax. I turn it with brace and get in no hurry and pull the bit and brush out the chips very often. So far I haven't had one wonder much.

[dmb25]

well i sure got a lot of information thanks
David

[dmb25]

well all your advice worked good my hole is in and its near perfect 
thanks

[smylee grouch]

Good job David, now please keep us posted on your progress.

[JDK]

David,

Glad it worked out for you.  What drill/method did you end up using?

Enjoy, J.D.

[dmb25]

i used a brad point drill i got from  Muzzleloader supply and just used a hand drill and wend slow cleaned out every 1/4 inch or so using wax to lubricate it

[kaintuck]

Wax or bar soap for lube

My trim router now to get my groove, then the dewalt with 2 blocks clamped to do the hole.....I'm getting lazy.....or when I'm REALLY lazy.....send out to DAVE Keck........

Glad she's worked out......
Show us pictures please.......

Marc n tomtom

[dmb25]

hears a picture i used candle wax for lube which worked alright i have the lock and trigger in to i actually used a scraper to put in the ramrod grove