Author Topic: Engraving questions....? (Read 10902 times)

Bigmon · « **on:** March 14, 2015, 06:19:49 AM »

Got a beginners DVD from TOW.
Couldnt wait, really want to try engraving. I know in advance that the big job is sharpening correctly, as with most other aspects of building.
Well, it really doesnt get that detailed. Leaves allot to be answered.
Not real helpful as far as sharpening.
So friends, any suggestions where I might find more infp maybe online?
I am about twenty bucked to death by buying things that just dont come up to expectation when buying.
Got a bullet mold that wont work, now this DVD. Bought a precarved stock thats not right, it just goes on and on.
Getting frustrated.
Help with this sharpening, PLEASE??
Thanks

Brian Jordan · « **Reply #1 on:** March 14, 2015, 11:39:47 AM »

Any of these links will keep you busy for days reading and learning. Even some you tube videos are helpful.

http://www.engravingforum.com/

http://www.engraverscafe.com/forumdisplay.php?1-Hand-Engraving-Forum

http://www.igraver.com/

http://www.handengravingforum.com/archive/index.php/f-12.html

Ed Wenger · « **Reply #2 on:** March 14, 2015, 02:07:12 PM »

Those are great links, with lots of good help and resources...

If you're looking for an excellent way to sharpen gravers, I'd highly recommend you check out the sharpening templates from Lindsay. I've found they save a great deal of aggravation, and more than worth their cost...

Ed

Bigmon · « **Reply #3 on:** March 14, 2015, 04:25:54 PM »

Thanks so much to all!
This is a great site with great people.
Take care

P.W.Berkuta · « **Reply #4 on:** March 14, 2015, 06:45:26 PM »

Quote from: Ed Wenger on March 14, 2015, 02:07:12 PM

Those are great links, with lots of good help and resources...

If you're looking for an excellent way to sharpen gravers, I'd highly recommend you check out the sharpening templates from Lindsay. I've found they save a great deal of aggravation, and more than worth their cost...

Ed

+1 ED -- they work great!

BrushCountryAg03 · « **Reply #5 on:** March 18, 2015, 07:33:40 PM »

To save you some heartache, time, and money, here is my take based upon my own trials & errors:

Regardless of which route you choose to take (chasing vs. handpiece/push), when it comes to SHARPENING your graver, PLEASE DO YOURSELF A HUGE FAVOR and buy the sharpening templates from LINDSAY ENGRAVING...There is no cheaper, faster and more accurate system in existence (I know because I've tried several others).

jerrywh · « **Reply #6 on:** March 18, 2015, 07:44:05 PM »

Quote from: SouthernSteel&Shot on March 18, 2015, 07:33:40 PM

To save you some heartache, time, and money, here is my take based upon my own trials & errors:

Regardless of which route you choose to take (chasing vs. handpiece/push), when it comes to SHARPENING your graver, PLEASE DO YOURSELF A HUGE FAVOR and buy the sharpening templates from LINDSAY ENGRAVING...There is no cheaper, faster and more accurate system in existence (I know because I've tried several others).

This statement is absolutely true. There are better systems for more money but you won't need them unless you intend to become a professional engraver. For long rifle work you can't beat a Lindsay setup.
Keep the heels very short.

kaintuck · « **Reply #7 on:** March 18, 2015, 10:41:23 PM »

I use the 'mail order system'..........= Tim Adlam

never a problem!

marc n tomtom

P.W.Berkuta · « **Reply #8 on:** March 18, 2015, 11:34:42 PM »

Quote from: kaintuck on March 18, 2015, 10:41:23 PM

I use the 'mail order system'..........= Tim Adlam

never a problem!

marc n tomtom

Can you send me Tim's info - address - phone - etc.

percman48 · « **Reply #9 on:** March 26, 2015, 11:41:54 PM »

I have been engraving for a few years. I still consider myself a novice but I am trying. I started out using the GRS graver fixture. Then I was introduced to the Steve Lindsay sharpening templates. I have some them but opted back to the GRS methods after watching an instructional video on sharpening by Sam Alfano. Linday's sharpening methods are predicated upon using diamond stones but to get a good sharp point, you need to step up to a ceramic. I think that cutting lines is relatively simple. Having the line look crisp is the answer. The only way to do that is by having the correct engraver that is sharpened beyond correct. After a while, you will be able to tell at an instant whether the graver is good or needs to be reworked. In his video, Mr. Alfano demonstrates how to sharpen gravers for different purposes. There is also technique to using each graver correctly. He also markets some instructional DVDs on proper cutting methods. Don't get me wrong, this is not a sales pitch and I don't work for anyone any more but I have spent big money to travel around the country to attend engraving classes. After paying for travel, registration and living expenses, the DVDs are a very good value. The man is a great instructor and the video quality is outstanding.

ejcrist · « **Reply #10 on:** March 29, 2015, 12:53:29 AM »

I'm a real greenhorn when it comes to engraving. The only thing I've done so far was my name on the top flat of the first rifle I assembled from a TVM kit. I practiced quite a bit on scrap before I attempted it and it actually came out better than I thought it would. Anyway my question: Are the Lindsay templates only for air powered gravers that Lindsay sells or can the be used on regular hand gravers? It looks like they can be used on any graver point. The few times I sharpened mine I just did it by hand on a stone and it seemed to cut just fine but it could be that I don't know the difference since I lack the experience.

Thanks, Gene

jerrywh · « **Reply #11 on:** March 29, 2015, 01:19:24 AM »

I think the Lindsay templates will work for anything even a hammer and chisel. If you graver was sharpend incorrectly I am pretty sure you would know right off.

mtgraver · « **Reply #12 on:** April 01, 2015, 07:40:04 PM »

I concur with Jerry, the templates work fine for all the work on longrifles. Spend a lot of money and time on gadgets and that is fine also. None of the original work was done with gadgets just common sense rules. Proper shaped tool for the work you are going to perform, typically a flat and square is all that is needed. On the square or V tool be sure the tip is in center and they don't need to be polished on ceramic or other very fine medium. Try short heel to long heel to know the difference and when they will or will not work. High carbon steel works fine but the HSS tools last longer and are more forgiving, hence the use of diamond stones. When the basics are accomplished then play with other geometries. My H/C tools are free hand sharpened as I've done for 30 years but love my Lindsey for all the other work. Have fun and practice, the only key to good engraving.
Mark

jerrywh · « **Reply #13 on:** April 01, 2015, 07:50:32 PM »

One thing about high speed steel is you don't have to worry about over heating it when sharpening because you cannot anneal it that way. It is hard to take the temper out of HSS. Carbide also.

smart dog · « **Reply #14 on:** April 02, 2015, 01:14:46 AM »

Quote from: percman48 on March 26, 2015, 11:41:54 PM

I have been engraving for a few years. I still consider myself a novice but I am trying. I started out using the GRS graver fixture. Then I was introduced to the Steve Lindsay sharpening templates. I have some them but opted back to the GRS methods after watching an instructional video on sharpening by Sam Alfano. Linday's sharpening methods are predicated upon using diamond stones but to get a good sharp point, you need to step up to a ceramic. I think that cutting lines is relatively simple. Having the line look crisp is the answer. The only way to do that is by having the correct engraver that is sharpened beyond correct. After a while, you will be able to tell at an instant whether the graver is good or needs to be reworked. In his video, Mr. Alfano demonstrates how to sharpen gravers for different purposes. There is also technique to using each graver correctly. He also markets some instructional DVDs on proper cutting methods. Don't get me wrong, this is not a sales pitch and I don't work for anyone any more but I have spent big money to travel around the country to attend engraving classes. After paying for travel, registration and living expenses, the DVDs are a very good value. The man is a great instructor and the video quality is outstanding.

Lindsay's sharpening system is NOT restricted to diamond stones. I use ceramic stones all the time with the templates.

dave

bama · « **Reply #15 on:** April 02, 2015, 06:35:58 AM »

You can use Lindsay templates for H&C but you need to add a lift bevel to the bottom of the graver before sharpening the point configuration. This allows for hand clearance and a higher point of attack that is needed for H&C that is not needed so much for air assist hand pieces. I am not sure if Lindsay's templates allow for this.

LRB · « **Reply #16 on:** April 02, 2015, 01:22:14 PM »

Would you not simply increase the heel angle?

Jay Close · « **Reply #17 on:** April 02, 2015, 04:43:14 PM »

If at all possible, attend an engraving class or workshop devoted to hammer and chisel engraving in historic styles. I think Log Cabin Supply in Lodi, OH holds one as does Conner Prairie outside of Indianapolis. I went to the Conner Prairie workshop taught by John Schippers and found it very worthwhile. John is also author of the book "Engraving Historic Firearms" published by the NMLRA. It is a bit on the pricey side, but filled with a wealth of information and worth every penny.

T*O*F · « **Reply #18 on:** April 02, 2015, 05:05:09 PM »

Quote

You can use Lindsay templates for H&C but you need to add a lift bevel to the bottom of the graver before sharpening the point configuration. This allows for hand clearance and a higher point of attack that is needed for H&C that is not needed so much for air assist hand pieces. I am not sure if Lindsay's templates allow for this.

Graver length protrusion is set by a small tube supplied with the template. Changing that length can alter the angles of the graver. Steve has a chart that gives various lengths and what they result in, but you have to ask him for it.

bob hertrich · « **Reply #19 on:** April 02, 2015, 05:41:39 PM »

Just wondering if the Lindsey template is still on the market. I checked the web and could not find a site to buy it from.

JTR · « **Reply #20 on:** April 02, 2015, 05:57:14 PM »

Bob, Click this link; http://www.engravingforum.com/

When it opens, look at the top left area and you'll notice ENGRAVING TOOLS in caps and red. Click that, and a new page opens. Scroll down to Graver Sharpening, and take your pick.
The first one for $89 is a good starter, if you already have some suitable sharpening stones.

John

bama · « **Reply #21 on:** April 02, 2015, 05:58:30 PM »

LRB that is a good question! If you use the Lindsay template with the parallel heel the heel angle is set by the template. To get more lift on the graver I do a relief grind of about 15 degrees then sharpen with the template. If you use conventional point on your graver you probably can do as you said. You may be able to alter the angle of the template if you vary the surface height that the template rides on but then the angle may be hard to repeat.

That is the reason I have both the GRS duel angle sharpening fixture and the Lindsay Universal Template. If I want to make a special grind or just want to know that I can make another graver just like the one I am using I can do that with no problem, no guess work. But once I have my graver blank ground the way I want it then I can touch it up with the template.

I know that there are a lot of guys that can sharpen by hand and get good results for much less money, I am just not one of those guys. My engraving quality went up considerably when I finally spent a few bucks on my sharpening system. I do not break as many points and my cut lines look much better. If you have ever watched Hershall House videos, he uses I think a laythe tool sharpend with a huge heel and does marvelous work. Unfortunately I am not that talented. $:-\$

I will second that money spent of engraving classes is money well spent, if you really want to engrave. Then it's practice, practice, practice.

Acer Saccharum · « **Reply #22 on:** April 02, 2015, 06:52:55 PM »

I can send you this by PDF if you PM me with your email.

James Rogers · « **Reply #23 on:** April 02, 2015, 07:09:11 PM »

Per Steve Lindsey, you can reduce the size of the plastic piece that sets the length of 5 he exposed shaft out from the template. I cut one 7/8" and I get a 20 degree heel and 50 degree face.

jerrywh · « **Reply #24 on:** April 02, 2015, 08:02:50 PM »

This is just a piece of info to consider for beginners especially. There is no diehard set rule for graver geometry. There is a generic geometry more or less. That is a 45° face and about a 15° heal angle. For a square and the same for a flat. One thing about learning from a professional one on one is you learn why the geometries are necessary for each individual circumstance. For chisel and hammer work I would recommend a heal angle of 20° to 22°. When cutting a nick and dot border if you use a 25° heal and a very short one it will solve most or your problems. Somebody mentioned that Hershal House used a very long heel and did very well. If the heel is over about .050 or .060 long you basically don't have a heal unless you are cutting very deep cuts. When you come out of a cut the graver is pivoting on the heel and if the heel is above the depth of the cut your cannot cut your way out . You need to draw a picture of the graver in the metal to understand how it works and why. Some professional engravers use a graver with no heel but they do not cut like you want to. They are usually doing a sort of bank note engraving.
It is not the face angle or the heel angle that needs to be considered it is the included angle. you can do these things with a Lindsay system but you need to figure out how. Maybe I'm just confusing the subject. Hardly any of you will get into the complicated stuff I do.

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Author Topic: Engraving questions....? (Read 10902 times)

BrushCountryAg03

kaintuck

percman48

ejcrist

mtgraver