smoothbores

[hanshi]

I would appreciate any advice from you smoothbore shooters.  My only experience with smoothbores is with a double barrel percussion shotgun.  I will be acquiring a 20 ga. flint fowler before the end of the year and was wondering about using ww metal for balls instead of pure lead.  I'm running very short on lead but have plenty of wheel weights.

I also use fffg for virtually everything to keep things simple and from years of habit; have only a can of ffg stashed away and won't be buying powder for a long time.  thanks.

!Jozai Senjo!  "always present on the battlefield"

[tg]

Many use ww lead in smoothbores, I have used 3f in guns from .31 thru .62 as main charge and prime, with good results, some guns seem to prefer 2f,  I would use the 3f you have and if you cannot get what you want out of the gun try some 2f

[northmn]

WW works better in a smoothbore than in a rifle, although some rifle shooters claim they work OK.  Some like them because they do not flatten like a pure lead ball and penetrate better.  At smoothbore velocities I do not know how much either would flatten.  I have seen recipes for 20 ga loads with 3f for both shot and ball.  One was about 70 grains to 1 1/8 of shot.  80 grains or more for RB. 

DP

[Longknife]

I shoot FFF in my 20 ga. smoothbore and prime with it too.  It seems to burn cleaner than FF. Just keep the loads "reasonable". My max load is 80 grains. The bore mics .620 and I use .600 balls cast from wheel weights. I would prefer a ball .25 to .30 under bore size and a little thicker patch to make loading easier....Try some buck-n-ball too!!!...Ed

[Roger Fisher]

WW should work in that smoothy!  Keep in mind that if you open that vent anything beyond 5/64 you will lose even 2 f out of the vent.  Sticking a vent pick in the vent til you seat the ball may prevent that.  Much use of a rough vent pick will serve to open that vent more and more and more - been there and done that

[hanshi]

Thanks, all.  This helps a lot!  Can't wait to try it all out.

!Jozai Senjo!  "always present on the battlefield"

[40Haines]

My smoothy likes FFF just fine.

I shoot 80gr FFF with a shot load

I use a .610 un-patched ball with a overshot card to hold it in place.

For plinking and playing around=55gr FFF

Hunting= 85gr  FFF

I played with WW in my .62 Jaeger. Wanting more penitration on big bears.

The WW shot just fine up to 135gr FF

Hope this helps

[hanshi]

40Haines:  how well does the rather thin bbl of a fowler handle, say, 80grns of fffg, from a point of view of safety?  My .45  purrs with 80grns but of course the bbl is thicker.   I will probably shoot more ball than shot so the loads you mention are of great interest.  Thanks.

!Jozai Senjo!  "always present on the battlefield"

[hanshi]

I notice all yall seem to like around 80grns for ball.  Also never thought about the effect of a rough vent pick (kinda ADD).  Mine's home made and I think a little rough, something to attend to.  Lotta good advice to consider. 

Like to open my guns vents to 5/64 if tight though some come already that size.  Wouldn't make them larger but smaller seems to cause misfires.

!Jozai Senjo!  "always present on the battlefield"

[40Haines]

As with any load, you need to work up to what works and YOU concider safe.

I started with 50gr (a real pip squeak) and worked up.

Like you I asked a lot of questions and made my own decisions.

Here is a link to a guy who is well respected.

http://members.aye.net/~bspen/SmoothboreLoads.html

Give it a read and burn some powder _ That is the fun part.

80gr of powder seems pretty standard -  So in the begining you might want to use it as a max load and play with different combinations of ball,wad and lube and see what kind of results you come up with.

One thing I figured was a shot charge weighs more than a ball - So if 80 was safe for shot, it should be no problem with a ball.

I know for sure my 55gr load will kill a whitetail stone dead with no problems.

A smoothy with its lack of a rear sight has a limited range (60 yds for me) and that 60 cal ball will get it done.

I bump the load up in an effort to get a better blood trail, I like to blow completely through the deer.

Two leaks are better than one.

This doe met the 55gr load @ around 45 yds.

She ran about 50 yds and piled up.

I watched her drop - Between where I hit her and where she dropped there were 2 drops of blood.

Thats when I upped the charge.

Hope this helps



   

[40Haines]

These guys are a lot bigger deer 200#+ and the 80gr load blew right through them.

Much better blood trail - although neither one made it 75 yds



Good luck

Hope this helps

Leo

[Daryl]

Taylor used 80gr. 2F in his .60 Jaeger for Mule Deer - over 200 pounders, and it worked OK as they were close .  Good thing, that old jogger shoots as poorly as a smoothbore, anyway - which is why I mentioned it .

[Canute Rex]

On the subject of vent picks and vent wear and leaking 3F - try a copper pick. It's softer than the vent material and non sparking.

My rifle has a large vent and when I first got it I noticed that I was "auto priming" with 3F. My solution was to make a 2" pick out of...hmmm...14 ga. (?) copper wire. I made a couple of loop splices in a piece of tarred marline to attach it to the front of my trigger guard. Before I load I put the pick deep in the vent and lower the frizzen on it to hold it in place. I load powder and ball and then pull the pick just before priming. It leaves a channel into the powder for fast ignition. The soft copper doesn't bend because I am always pulling it, never pushing it.

Canute

[hanshi]

Canute, I think I could come up with a piece of copper wire.   I guess I was always looking for something fancier. Anyway I've never noticed more than a few granules of fffg ever making it into the pan and I'd like to keep it that way.  I like my guns to have vent holes 5/64 but no larger.  I've noticed they often come smaller from the builder and I've had misfires until I opened them up.  Pipe cleaners work fine, too.  They just don't last long.

!Jozai Senjo!  "always present on the battlefield"

[Roger Fisher]

Canute, I think I could come up with a piece of copper wire.   I guess I was always looking for something fancier. Anyway I've never noticed more than a few granules of fffg ever making it into the pan and I'd like to keep it that way.  I like my guns to have vent holes 5/64 but no larger.  I've noticed they often come smaller from the builder and I've had misfires until I opened them up.  Pipe cleaners work fine, too.  They just don't last long.

!Jozai Senjo!  "always present on the battlefield"

My former copper vent pick did in fact wear said vent larger!  But my fowler is wearing a flash guard which forced me to put a curve in said pick and I could not go straight in.  The copper got quite pitted and rough after quite a lot of use and did it's dirty work on that liner!

[hanshi]

Roger, could electrolysis explain the vent damage?  Copper is much softer than steel so that might explain it.  I'm not that familiar with the process so the thought never occurred to me until just now.  I guess anything can wear over time same as a knife blade will dull from cutting soft hides.  I think, now, that whatever is used the thing to do is simply use care inserting any kind of metal into the vent and not gouge the hole.  After all the idea is to clear fouling out of that tiny opening, not wallow it larger.  I've been trying to find pipe cleaners, the kind used in crafts not the fuzzy kind used to clean out pipe stems, to clear out the vent holes.  They have stiffer bristles and I'd think they'd work well and last longer than the fuzzy kind.  Wonder how a piece of soft brass would work?  Thanks for sharing that experience.

!Jozai Senjo!  "always present on the battlefield"

[Daryl]

Flintr - a .17 cal nylon bristle brush might work. The inner wire is small enough, I think and the nylon would certainly brush out the $#@* - might even expand inside to clean the cup if rotated.  I will stick with the handforged steel ones, though - they look the part.  A bit of care in it's use is all that's necessary.

[northmn]

I ahve used vent picks made out of electrical wire, satinless steel, and so forth.  While this will make some scream, I prefer to insert the pick when loading.  I ahve had excellent luck doing so and I think it eliminates some of the reaming action.  Something I may try, is the use of feathers that I have heard some contributers use.

DP

[hanshi]

Both using a feather and a 17 cal. nylon brush sound like excellent alternatives.  I have frequently reloaded by inserting a still wire and closing the frizzen over it while I poured  in powder and seated the ball.  I need to be consistent, I think.  Guess I'll see what kind of habit I can create with what kind of pick.

!Jozai Senjo!  "always present on the battlefield"

[northmn]

Another reason I insert a vent pick is that some recommended a #50 drill for the vent size, which is supposed to cut down pan flashes.  I tried it in a 54 which seems quicker with a 3f load.  It also starts to self prime with the .07 hole as compared to the 1/16 or .0625 I used to use.  Once its packed in by loading it wuits priming.  With 2f you don't need to do this.  I ended up changing the vent insert on taht rifle as I think it may have been a little low and replaced the hole in the sunset position.  For smoothbores I use 2f as I prefer less pressure and mostly use shot.  As to loads, a gent I built a 62 rifle for, uses about 70 grains of 2f and has taken several deer with it.

DP

[hanshi]

As they came from the builder, 3 guns had vent holes that would allow a 1/16 drill bit to pass but not a 5/64.  Two others would not permit a 1/16 bit to pass so I opened them up with a 1/16 bit as they misfired a few times.  The smaller vents might not have had much to do with the misfires but I wanted to make sure and have them uniform.  I don't want to wallow them out any larger.  I do get a few kernels of 3f migrating into the pan sometimes but don't worry over it.

I erroneously stated in a previous post that I used a 5/64 bit but I checked again and the bit was indeed 1/16.  I don't mind a few kernels of 3f in the pan and it's always so few that I can count them.  Doesn't seem to cause any problems.  I prime with 4f but have noticed 3f works fine, too.  It has been my experience that 3f burns cleaner than 2f (in the bore) and I have used 3f out of habit for everything up to .58 cal plus sometimes in a 12 ga shotgun.  Just got use to doing it that way.  I still have an unopened can of Dupont 4f I got back about 1967.  It almost seems like an heirloom, now.  Use to have an earlier can of powder that had the small spout & looked kinda like a whiskey flask.  But I ramble on.     

!Jozai Senjo!  "always present on the battlefield"