Author Topic: Frizzen re-sole (Read 11404 times)

Longknife · « **on:** March 24, 2015, 05:44:19 PM »

I usually re-sole my frizzens with old files, which I believe is W2 steel. I recently ran across a supply of triangular sickle bar teeth that are the perfect thickness for this but from what I can find out they are 1085 steel. Has anyone ever used sickle bar teeth to resole a frizzen??? Thanks!

bob in the woods · « **Reply #1 on:** March 24, 2015, 06:22:48 PM »

The only time I re-soled a frizzen, I used strapping from a pallet of lumber/plywood. It worked fine.
Having built a couple of houses, I have a lifetime supply.

mattdog · « **Reply #2 on:** March 24, 2015, 07:18:20 PM »

You could try a simple test. Harden/quench a piece of it and strike it with a flint.

Hungry Horse · « **Reply #3 on:** March 24, 2015, 07:19:54 PM »

I use commercial hacksaw blades made for the old reciprocating power hacksaws. They are about an inch and a half, or two inches wide, and work like a champ. They make great scrapers for stock work as well. If you find an old hardware store, they probably have a bunch they can't get rid of. Any old saw blade seems to work great.

Hungry Horse

BOB HILL · « **Reply #4 on:** March 24, 2015, 10:57:00 PM »

I've used old handsaw blades on frizzen faces and for scrapers as well. Pick them up cheap at flea markets and yard sales. Just be sure you're not cutting up a valuable old tool.

T*O*F · « **Reply #5 on:** March 25, 2015, 12:48:03 AM »

C'mon Guys. He didn't ask what YOU use, he asked if what HE has will work.

BOB HILL · « **Reply #6 on:** March 25, 2015, 01:13:11 AM »

Sorry about that. No never used sickle saw blades.

Ky-Flinter · « **Reply #7 on:** March 25, 2015, 01:17:35 AM »

Ed,

If the sickle teeth are 1085 they should work fine. I Googled 1085 steel. It's high carbon and so can be hardened. The knife makers love it.

-Ron

JCKelly · « **Reply #8 on:** March 25, 2015, 04:53:45 AM »

Files are 1095. Your 1085 should be just fine. Old HAND saws and at least the lower priced circular saw blades are usually 1070, which might work even finer-er.

your P.I.T.A. Metallurgist

WadePatton · « **Reply #9 on:** March 25, 2015, 05:13:12 AM »

Quote from: JCKelly on March 25, 2015, 04:53:45 AM

Files are 1095. Your 1085 should be just fine. Old HAND saws and at least the lower priced circular saw blades are usually 1070, which might work even finer-er.

your P.I.T.A. Metallurgist

Hey Jim, while we got you on the line-what about steel banding material? Somehow I got the idea that it's 1095. Can you confirm/deny plead the 5th?

David R. Pennington · « **Reply #10 on:** March 25, 2015, 05:43:17 AM »

What is your process for attaching the half sole?

Longknife · « **Reply #11 on:** March 25, 2015, 07:00:04 AM »

Thanks guys for the info, I'm gonna try it... David, To sole a frizzen::
1) Grind as much as possible from the frizzen face taking care to keep the correct curve.
2) Thin the sole enough that it doesn't hit the fence when closed. Leave the sole over size (on sides)
3) Heat the sole hot enough to clamp to frizzen face and form to the curve. (let cool)
4) Heat the sole red hot and drop into water bucket.
5) Remove from bucket and clean scale from both sides.
6) Flux back side of sole and tin it with solder. (thin coat)
7) Tin Face of frizzen with solder.

Clamp sole to frizzen with vice grips, heat frizzen till solder joins, may have to add a little solder.
9) Trim sole. (grind)
10) install frizzen. (and pray)

davec2 · « **Reply #12 on:** March 25, 2015, 10:02:08 AM »

Or you could rivet it on like this original

Dphariss · « **Reply #13 on:** March 25, 2015, 05:44:13 PM »

Quote from: Longknife on March 24, 2015, 05:44:19 PM

I usually re-sole my frizzens with old files, which I believe is W2 steel. I recently ran across a supply of triangular sickle bar teeth that are the perfect thickness for this but from what I can find out they are 1085 steel. Has anyone ever used sickle bar teeth to resole a frizzen??? Thanks!

Just buy some 1075-1095 and make a sole for the thing. Its too much work to go through and then find that the steel you used has a high chrome content and won't spark well.

Dan

Daryl · « **Reply #14 on:** March 25, 2015, 07:05:20 PM »

or buy a new frizzen to replace it

jerrywh · « **Reply #15 on:** March 25, 2015, 07:38:03 PM »

1085 will work well but not as good as 1095 or 01. What Dan said is correct. A lot of the metal used on stuff today has a chrome content. For a few years one of the lock makers was using 6150 for springs and maybe still does. I think they also used it for frizzens You could just case harden the one you have.
there is a old way of hardening stuff that I have not heard for over 50 years. Just for the info of those who may not have heard of it, this is it. The frizzen was wrapped in a piece of leather. Any old leather will do. Then cover the whole thing with a good layer of clay about 1/2" thick or more. Let it dry until it is completely air dried. Put it in the wood stove or a good wood fire until it is red hot for at least 1 hour. Remove from the fire while it is still red hot and toss it in a bucket of cool water.
This may or may not brake the clay away but it doesn't matter. Try it for hardness. If it is not hard enough reheat it to a red heat and quench in room temp water. That worked for me about 50 years ago. I made frizzens from plain 1/4" angle iron and they worked for years.

Kevin Houlihan · « **Reply #16 on:** March 25, 2015, 08:34:13 PM »

6) Flux back side of sole and tin it with solder. (thin coat)
7) Tin Face of frizzen with solder.
Cool Clamp sole to frizzen with vice grips, heat frizzen till solder joins, may have to add a little solder.

Ed,
Are you using regular soft solder or braze?
Thanks,
Kevin

Jim Kibler · « **Reply #17 on:** March 25, 2015, 09:02:43 PM »

I know people use soft solder for attachment, but I wouldn't feel comfortable. I like the idea of case hardening. If using a separate sole, you can rivet and braze, or with some special clamps, you might be able to braze alone. With brazing, it will probably have to be quenched in the same process. I believe Frank House showed this on one of his videos.

Dphariss · « **Reply #18 on:** March 25, 2015, 09:37:22 PM »

If brazed, thats with BRASS, its possible to heat and quench to harden the part. Then draw back as normal.

Dan

shortbarrel · « **Reply #19 on:** March 26, 2015, 01:13:06 AM »

I copper weld lots of things, copper flows at right under welding heat. Heat treating then is no problem.

Longknife · « **Reply #20 on:** March 26, 2015, 03:02:28 AM »

Quote from: Snap on March 25, 2015, 08:34:13 PM

6) Flux back side of sole and tin it with solder. (thin coat)
7) Tin Face of frizzen with solder.
Cool Clamp sole to frizzen with vice grips, heat frizzen till solder joins, may have to add a little solder.

Ed,
Are you using regular soft solder or braze?
Thanks,
Kevin

Kevin, Regular old soft 40-60 solder, I have one I did 30 years ago and it is still holding fine...Ed

rich pierce · « **Reply #21 on:** March 26, 2015, 03:37:45 PM »

Ed, I'm not surprised soft solder holds. There is no force pulling the joint apart. I'm not certain how the right hardness is maintained or achieved using soft solder. I'd guess you harden the sole first, then tin it, and that heat does not temper it too much?

Longknife · « **Reply #22 on:** March 26, 2015, 05:36:57 PM »

Rich, I form and water harden the sole before tinning. I then tin the frizzen and clamp them together and apply a propane torch to the back side of the frizzen just till the solder flows. I have always used old files for the sole. This has always worked for me. Here is the first one I ever did in about '80 ...Ed

Longknife · « **Reply #23 on:** March 26, 2015, 05:44:33 PM »

Here is the one I am working on. This one shows signs of being re-hardened at least once. There is very little face left to reharden and Lott lock parts are not available any more so the only option is to half sole. These old LOTT locks had very soft frizzens and were usually good for about 100 shots!!!! The frizzens were extremely thin. I think I will do a tutorial on this for everyone...Ed

rich pierce · « **Reply #24 on:** March 26, 2015, 05:45:41 PM »

Looks beautiful, Ed. That one is never going to wear out!

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Author Topic: Frizzen re-sole (Read 11404 times)

mattdog