Soluble oil

[RichG]

I've used Sta-lube soluble oil for patch lube and cleaning for years. my new batch doesn't seem to stay in solution. squirt it out of the bottle and I get water with gobs of oil in it. anyone else have this problem? anyone know if the formula has changed?

[Topknot]

Rich, Some of the so-called water soluable oils have changed over the years , and may not be what they once were. I personally use Ballistol . The ratio I use is 7 parts water to 1 part oil.

                                                                   topknot

[Hungry Horse]

 So, we're talking about "moose milk" without the squirt of 409, or simple green, or whatever you prefer, right? Its an old recipe, that is hard to beat fort range use. No good for hunting though.

                 Hungry Horse

[Topknot]

Rich, I use the Dutch shultz method in all my shooting. Cut 2 1/2 inch strips by however long you want it to be of your favorite patch thickness or thick enough to ensure a pretty tight loading when wrapped around your rb. I dip the patch strips in the 7 to 1 mixture and then lay the strips flat to dry out. After patch material has dried completely your ready to go . The ballistol / water ratio can be moved around to determine what ratio your rifle prefers. I played around with 6 ,7,and 8 to 1 ratios before settleing with a 7 to 1 ratio. My rifle really likes it . Tight loading is the trick.

                                                               topknot

[Robby]

I always carry The Dutch Schultz mixture with me to the range and hunting in an old whiskey flask. Sometimes My shooting sessions out last my ability to produce enough spit! Hah! Not sure just why I carry it hunting, because I use either mink oil or bear grease, but old habits die hard.
Robby

[Mad Monk]

I've used Sta-lube soluble oil for patch lube and cleaning for years. my new batch doesn't seem to stay in solution. squirt it out of the bottle and I get water with gobs of oil in it. anyone else have this problem? anyone know if the formula has changed?

The term water-soluble oil is generally used but not accurate.  These oils are miscible in water.  Meaning they will disperse into the water without actually dissolving into the water.
When you look at most of what is called Moose Milk in bp shooting you see oils that emulsified into the water.  Usually with a bit of soap to act as an emulsification agent.  If frozen they will separate.  The emulsion is broken.

In your case you might try a few drops of dish liquid and shake well.  This will break the globules of oil down into a fine emulsified state.  The dish liquid will also help with cleaning the bore after shooting and swabbing or end of session bore cleaning.

Mad Monk

[kentucky bucky]

I use half and half Ballistol and water for cleaning and sometimes patch lube. It stays in a milky white emulsion forever.

[Dewey]

Might be great stuff ... but as I can only get it by mail order (Amazon or Track), I will use something I can get/make locally.

[RichG]

mad monk-I put a couple of drops of dawn in my moose milk and it seems to solve the problem-thanks for the info
 
I've never used ballistol as it seems expensive. might give it a try as it seems to be popular. all I've ever seen is aerosol, do you just spray into a bottle and mix with water?

[Beaverman]

Rich, you can order ballistol in 16 oz. pour cans

[Dewey]

... but you might get sticker shock!

[SCLoyalist]

 I've never used ballistol as it seems expensive.

Track and Amazon both sell Ballistol (non-aerosol) for around $17 for 16 fl oz.   That's pretty much the same price per fluid ounce as Mr Flintlock, Hoppes 9 BP, and Lehigh Valley Lube (which I just saw listed today on Track).    If you use Ballistol in Dutch Schoultz's dry lube patch technique, the Ballistol would get mixed 1:8 Ballistol to water, and that $17 would make up enough lube for a lot of patches.   Or, in moose milk, one recipe calls for one part Murphys Oil Soap, one part Alcohol, 1 part Ballistol, and about 10 or 20 parts water - so again, a little of the relatively expensive Ballistol would go a long way.

[Stormrider51]

Another vote for Ballistol.  I mix it in a 6:1 water to oil ratio.  By my math that 16 oz bottle becomes 112 oz when mixed.  Makes the price seem a lot better.

Storm

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

may try a local machine shop and experiment if its flammable or not.

[Maven]

I too use 1 Ballistol : 6 water for a patch lube, but have discovered another product, "Kleen Draw," which is also a water soluble oil that works just as well.  My sample was free so I can't comment on the price.

[Gun_Nut_73]

Excuse my ignorance, but what is Moose Milk?

[Bob Roller]

Excuse my ignorance, but what is Moose Milk?

Moose milk is common name for water soluble oils used as lubes/coolants in machine shops.
Also called "Boar's milk".

Bob Roller

[Mad Monk]

may try a local machine shop and experiment if its flammable or not.

Most of the lubes or some of their ingredients are flammable.  Remember that beeswax, tallow, bayberry wax and japan wax had been used as bullet lubes in black powder firearms.  These were also used to make candles.

The important question is that when a small portion of the lube is burned during the firing of the gun what sort of residue does in leave in the barrel.  Some will form a very thin varnish-like film in the bore while another leave a film that is an asphalt.

To test for this you put some of the lube in a shallow metal pan and ignite it with the flame from a propane torch. Then examine what the deposits look like if any are left when the lube sample is consumed.

Mad Monk

[Daryl]

Good suggestion on burning some 'lube' and seeing what's left, MMonk. Hadn't thought of that, but of course, the lube is on the bore as the powder flame runs over it- flash-burns and must leave "something" behind.  Perhaps some of these mixes is what causes people to have to wipe their bores to ease loading?

I was out at the range with Taylor yesterday, shooting our .45 target perc. pistols.  Just for the heck of it, I tried some 200gr. REAL bullets, lubed with Lyman's BP Gold lube. I fired off about 20 of them in a row without pausing to wipe the bore, using from 20gr. 3f to 40gr. 3F, then went back to shooting a .440" ball and .022" denim saliva patch without missing a beat. I noted to Taylor how easily it loaded (when I expected it to be a bit crunchy - not at all), even though only the top band of the bullet I had been using, actually engraved the lands. They must have obturated enough that the lube- perhaps 3 or 4 years old, worked, somewhat at least - however there was no buildup of fouling from shooting the bullets, to injure the easy loading the patched ball.

Perhaps Mad Monk is on to something with residues left in some of these difficult loading bores.

[Mad Monk]

Daryl,

Se the Way Back Machine to 1982-83.

I was getting reports that some gunshops were getting ML BP guns back with projectiles lodged tightly in the bore a few inches off the powder charge.  In nearly every incident they had to remove the breech plug and drive the projectile up the bore, towards  and out the muzzle, using metal bar stock and a hefty hammer.  When they would look in through the back of the bore they would see what looked like a heavy black film in the bore.  A film that would not respond to normal bore cleaners.  Only gasoline, mineral spirits or turpentine would remove the film.

At that point in time the two main lubes being sold for minies or Maxi-Ball shooting was a lube from Blue & Grey or T/C Maxi-Lube.
Now the Blue & Grey lube was nothing more than repackaged automotive wheel bearing grease and the T/C lube was nothing more than a grease they used in the shop to grease their metal working machinery.  We used the exact same grease in the big chemical plant I worked in.

So it was into the tech books on lubricants.
The two greases here were produced by modifying lubricating oils.  A metallic soap, such as calcium sterate is added to thicken the oil and make it into a grease.
I would put some in a salve tin and hit it with the propane torch flame to get it to burn. Then watch as it burned and then looked at the deposits in the pan.

The petroleum industry text books explained it as far as the gun bores went.
If  you charge a heated reaction vessel with petroleum crude oil and then add sulfur to it you would get a vessel full of asphalt after heating 8 to 10 hours to a temperature where the sulfur reacts with the oil.

So what was going on in the bores was that a small amount of the lube, in contact with the bore walls would start to be converted to asphalt with the heat and sulfur bearing gases created by powder combustion.  Each shot would add just a bit more to the thickness of that film.  As with any asphalt it had a softening point and a melting point.  So if you loaded a projectile with the asphalt softened or melted it would "lock" the projectile in that position in the bore if the film cooled.

It became apparent that this was a leading cause of burst barrels where a shooter thought the projectile was seated directly onto the powder charge when it was actually "stuck" several inches off the powder charge.

And about that time we saw Young come out with Young Country 103 lube and Ox-Yoke selling the same thing under their label which they simply purchased from Young.  The Young Country 103 lube was simply repackaged Chap Stick.  But since Chap Stick uses petroleum waxes, not oils, it would not form the asphalt film in the bore.  The petroleum waxes will; not form asphalt while the petroleum oils will.


Mad Monk

[Mad Monk]

I should have mentioned that if you suspect a lube is building a thin film in the bore you might consider going into the bore with a swab made wet with mineral spirits.  A lot of lubes do not form an asphalt film in the bore but simply leave a coloration on the metal in the bore.  The mineral spirit swab will tell the story if there are any questions of lube deposits in the bore.

I ran into this with the Wonder Lube.  In the lab I found that it contained some mineral oil.  When heated and then burned the mineral oil will form a very thin varnish-like film in the bore that serves no useful purpose in the bore.  So every now and then I would swab with mineral spirits.  Another way is to use automotive body tar remover. 

Mad monk

[bob in the woods]

Thanks for that, Mad Monk.  Now I have even more reasons to stick with bear oil.   

[Daryl]

TKS MadMonk - great information, as usual.

I did some more pistol shooting today with Taylor and found I shoot my Perc. Pistol better without my glasses, than I do with them.  With my glasses,  at 28 yards, wrist rest on a sand bag, 2-handed hold, I spread 5 shots across the page in a 5 3/4" group but without glasses using the same .440" bl. and .020" pocket drill - Mr.Flintlock's lube, no wiping, I made a 1 1/4" C to C group with 5 shots.  Good to find this out, before the match! This gun shoots better than any of my modern handguns - of course.

At a mere 15 yards, the 200gr. REAL bullets (Lyman BP Gold Lube) with 30gr. 3F, made a slightly under 1" diameter hole for 5 shots - barked pretty good, too. Clean-up was easy.  18" twist GM pistol-twist barrel from Track.

[Dewey]

I ran into this with the Wonder Lube.  In the lab I found that it contained some mineral oil.  When heated and then burned the mineral oil will form a very thin varnish-like film in the bore that serves no useful purpose in the bore.  So every now and then I would swab with mineral spirits.  Another way is to use automotive body tar remover. 

Mad monk

Monk -

Have you ever tested Ballistol?  According to internet sources it contains mineral oil, too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistol

[Mad Monk]

I ran into this with the Wonder Lube.  In the lab I found that it contained some mineral oil.  When heated and then burned the mineral oil will form a very thin varnish-like film in the bore that serves no useful purpose in the bore.  So every now and then I would swab with mineral spirits.  Another way is to use automotive body tar remover. 

Mad monk

Monk -

Have you ever tested Ballistol?  According to internet sources it contains mineral oil, too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistol

I had played with Ballistol but did not like it as a patch lube in the round ball rifles.

I think it is a paraffin oil and not what we would normal purchase as the USP Heavy Mineral Oil.  The Internet info on it is not that particular as to just what it comes from other than cracking crude oil.

I think it could be the oil extracted from petroleum jelly (Vaseline) when the crude petroleum jelly is "Sweated" to separate out paraffin wax.  The commonly used term "mineral oil" covers a number of oils recovered from paraffinic crude oils.

Mad Monk