LMF vs Wahkon Bay

[PKLeRay]

I used LMF barrel brown am really not pleased with it. I ordered some Wahkon Bay tru brown to try. Can I expect it to be better?

[satwel]

I have never used LMF brown so I can't compare the two. But I have used Wahkon Bay browning solution for years with excellent results.

[PPatch]

What aspect are you not pleased with? I have used the LMF browning and it produced very good results.

dave

[PKLeRay]

I haven't figured out how to post pics on here yet but it seems streaky and "beady". I applied it pretty dry too.

[jerrywh]

 It's not the product it's the applicator that makes it streaky.

[Dennis Glazener]

If I follow the directions it works fine for me. Have used it for years.
Dennis

[eddillon]

Have used both.  I use LMF exclusively now for browning, bluing and Damascus.  I find it very forgiving.  I do dilute with distilled water after initial application and carding.

[BJH]

I've never used anything but Wakon bay brown or rust blue. Always had good results. I use a damp box for the rusting periods. Simply scald in boiling water for blue after final carding. I never had a problem that was not tracible to oil pollution on the steel. BJH

[PKLeRay]

Jerrywh what do you use to apply it?

[B Shipman]

I've used only Wakon Bay brown for over 3o years. There's just no tricks. Great result. The same with LMF Permalyn finish. Lots of tricks but the most weather durable finish there is.

[Keithbatt]

First time I used LMF it streaked. I attribute it to me not following the directions. "Rubbing the surface with Barrel Brown can cause a metallic copper colored film to form, which will impede the browning process." 

I rubbed it too much.  On subsequent uses I just dampened the surface with a cotton ball or q-tip and had no issues, just uniform rusting/brown.

Keith.

[PPatch]

I haven't figured out how to post pics on here yet but it seems streaky and "beady". I applied it pretty dry too.

A dry(er) application is not good but neither is a sopping wet application. You need something in between, wet but not dripping wet. A light smooth touch is required too. I use cleaning patches or a small square of terry cloth, sometimes for small parts I use a Q-tip.

The first couple of coats you'll see some streaking, always, if you've applied a bit too much finger pressure you will also note some coppering. Ignore all that and keep applying the LMF every few hours, the browning will even out just perfectly after about three or four coats. By around seven coats you'll be done. Card between coats for a smooth finish and immediately before the next LMF application.

The point is that when you first begin with the treatments it WILL look streaky, you just have to keep going and the finish will even out nicely. It is okay to overlap as you apply the LMF, be sure to not miss any spots even if you have to daub a little here and there.

Good luck.

dave

[little joe]

Are we referring to LMf barrel brown and degreaser?

[smallpatch]

LMF is the most forgiving, and produces great results.  Degrease, apply with a light touch, don't rub, card between coats. You can get everything from a coarse, leather grained brown, to a smooth even finish depending on number of coats, and humidity.  Even a nice rust blue.
I live in AZ so very low humidity, so I use a damp box so I can totally control what's happening.



Good stuff!!!

[JDK]

LMF is the most forgiving, and produces great results.....

Dane,  Did you mean by the "most forgiving", or that LMF is just "forgiving"?  There is a difference.

When you say it's the "most forgiving" I understand it to mean that it's been compared to the other products out there and found to be superior.

I can't personally attest to LMF's quality or ease of use as I haven't used it and don't plan to based on all of the posts about coppering and streaking, etc.

Like many above, I have always used Wahkon Bay.  I eventually run out of my old stuff when it wasn't available for a time and used Danglers.  I expect many also ran out and tried other products and have since stuck with them, as that is what they are used to using and are comfortable with.

As far as "most forgiving", while your post seems to indicate using LMF is pretty straight forward, I don't know how it can be any "more forgiving" than Wahkon or Danglers.  I clean the barrel, slather those products on and they start rusting.

Like Bill Shipman said, there's "no tricks" to it, nothing special in regards to application, no streaking, no coppering, just rusting.

Just looking for clarification here.  Thanks and Enjoy, J.D.

[bama]

Both products work if you follow the instructions. I have used both and finally settled on WB because i do not get the coppering with it. LMF is a good product and will give good results but you have to be carefull with that first coat. If you get that nice light blueish gray color after the first coat then the next costs go much easier. Follow the directions and all will be well. I use cotton balls that can be bought by the bag in beauty supplies. One cotton ball for each application.

[T*O*F]

Contrary to many, I had zero success with LMF.  I tried two different bottles and neither one would even rust the barrel, one of which I left hanging in a damp basement for the whole winter.  I talked to a couple of other gunbuilders and they had the same results.  Danglers solved the problem in both cases and it's what I use now, but it's running low.

I bought both Mark Lee's Express Brown #2 and Brownells Classic Rust Blue but haven't tried them yet.  Each will be used in the near future though and I'll report back when I do.

[JDK]

T*O*F

I'm sure you are aware that Dangler's formula is still produced by Jim Kline.  MSB and Stonewall Creek both carry it, and I'm sure others do to.

Enjoy, J.D.

[smallpatch]

It's intersting, just like everything else I guess.  Glass half full or half empty. 
I've used LMF and Danglers, and wahkon . IMHO LMF is the easiest, and most predictable.

I've used it on at least 70-80 barrels, and other hardware, with quality, even, predictable results.
Simply follow the instructions.
I do go an extra step.  Instructions say there is no need to degrease, but I'd do.  I simply brush down with 409 cleaner, wash with clear water, and it's already starting to rust before you apply the solution. I also use a damp box because I live in a area with single digit humidity.
If it's chilly, I'll add a heat lamp to the side of the box. 3 to 4 applications 12 hours apart, is usually all it takes.

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

I use Homer Dangler solution.. tried the others but this works smoothly and if you keep at it it will make a matte brown finish that is very nice on a fowling piece for preventing shine blindness....  Easy to wipe on with a cotton ball or makeup pad..... lightly wipe on every 30 -60 minutes depending on humidity -- this is GA--  let it sit overnight. card and see what you have. do it some more if necessary...til you get it the way you want it.

[moleeyes36]

I use Homer Dangler solution.. tried the others but this works smoothly and if you keep at it it will make a matte brown finish that is very nice on a fowling piece for preventing shine blindness....  Easy to wipe on with a cotton ball or makeup pad..... lightly wipe on every 30 -60 minutes depending on humidity -- this is GA--  let it sit overnight. card and see what you have. do it some more if necessary...til you get it the way you want it.

I notice that Muzzleloaders Builders' supply lists a separate Homer Dangler solution for browning and bluing unlike LMF that uses one solution to do both finishes.  Have you ever use the bluing solution and does it require boiling to get the blue/black finish like LMF does?  Thanks.

Mole Eyes

[davec2]

There is a lot of hocus pocus to the chemistry of browning and blueing.  If anyone is really interested in the subject, and if you have not read "Firearm Blueing and Browning" by R.H Angier (Copyright 1936), I would suggest reading it.  He has over 200 formulas for blues and browns and he will tell you that he only collected a "fraction" of what has been used over the centuries of gunmaking.  I have used LMF with great success.  I have used some of the other prepared browns with equal success.  I have also used plain Ammonium Chloride (Sal Ammoniac - also used a a flux for soft soldering- very cheap and available) mixed in a little distilled water and wiped on clean steel with great success.  Or, for anyone with a pool or hot tub, clean the barrel, leave it damp and open a jug of muriatic acid (hydrochloric acid). Pass the barrel back and forth over the fumes that come out of the acid jug for a minute or two and then set it aside.  It will cause the barrel to rust very quickly.  But with any of these methods, the preparation of the steel surface is very important to preclude streaks and blotches.  So whatever you use to brown, it will take some experimentation, some practice, and some consistency on the users part.  There is really no such thing as an "idiot proof" browning solution.  As soon as you think you have invented one, someone will come up with a better idiot.