Author Topic: Auction ending today  (Read 13960 times)

eddillon

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Auction ending today
« on: April 07, 2015, 09:24:57 PM »
Nice.  Looks like a recent conversion.  The hammer anyway.

http://www.antiqueguns.com/auction/item.cgi?robles/robles-49245
« Last Edit: April 07, 2015, 09:34:48 PM by aka california eddillon »

Offline Shreckmeister

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Re: Auction ending today
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2015, 10:23:27 PM »
Quite a bump in that last bid from 5K to 8K.  Now 9K.  Sticking around for the next 5 minutes to watch where this goes.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2015, 10:25:46 PM by Shreckmeister »
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

Offline Shreckmeister

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Re: Auction ending today
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2015, 10:28:59 PM »
$10,500 and still going.
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

Offline Shreckmeister

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Re: Auction ending today
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2015, 10:32:09 PM »
Sold 12K, I like your style sitting back and popping at the last minute.  Nice seeing you at Baltimore.  I hope you post the story of
this one here on ALR.
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

eddillon

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Re: Auction ending today
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2015, 11:10:18 PM »
I assume one of our ALR is now the lucky owner of this fine piece.  Congrats on the acquisition of a nice one.

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Auction ending today
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2015, 02:32:01 AM »
What was it?
Andover, Vermont

Offline Buck

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Re: Auction ending today
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2015, 03:44:36 AM »
A true "Kentucky Rifle". Made by L Bryan, nice looking gun.
Buck

Offline JTR

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Re: Auction ending today
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2015, 04:26:09 AM »
A nice gun, and bought for a pretty good price too!

So who's the lucky guy???

John
John Robbins

Offline Tanselman

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Re: Auction ending today
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2015, 07:24:15 AM »
Some may wonder what is special about the "L. Bryan" rifle. For those who collect early rifles made west of the Appalachians, and specifically early Kentucky guns, it represents one of the earliest and finest examples of a Lexington rifle...the rifle style most recognizable within early Kentucky gunmaking. The Bryan family (inter-married with the Boone family) of gunmakers was heavily responsible for the development and distinctive look of the Lexington rifle. Any early Kentucky-made rifle with a full patchbox is rare, signed rifles even more rare, and those that carry both the maker's and the original owner's names are very special. Those special rifles can be traced back to a place and time where the original owner lived, thus allowing us to learn something about how the rifle began its life, who used it, and perhaps an historic event or two the rifle witnessed during its working days. For example, a quick check on this particular rifle shows that its probable original owner served in the War of 1812 at Ft. Meigs...same time and same place that the great Kentucky hornsmith, Francis Tansel, served during the War of 1812.  

Some may recall the fine Lexington style rifle raffled off at the CLA in 2013... a true copy of a Bryan rifle crafted by the accomplished gun-builder Marvin Kemper of Indiana. Lexington rifles are growing in exposure and desirability these days due to their importance in early KY history and their distinctive appearance that is becoming more widely recognized by collectors. While not as heavily decorated as finer eastern rifles, Lexington guns make up for any decorative shortcomings by their slender, elegant stock architecture enhanced by barrels 46 to 48 inches in length. Slim wrists, delicate forestocks, tight side facings, a unique patchbox, and bold triangular butts with strong combs create a great looking, beautiful rifle...regardless of how much silver or carving it may lack.

The "L. Bryan" rifle was made by Lewis Bryan (1785-1871), oldest son of pioneer KY gunsmith Daniel Bryan who heavily influenced the Lexington rifle style. The Bryans arrived in Kentucky (Bryan's Station, five miles northeast of Lexington) from North Carolina in 1779. Gunsmith William Bryan Sr. led the Bryan party to Kentucky, but died by Indian fire before making any guns on Kentucky soil. His son, Daniel Bryan, was the earliest Bryan gunsmith known to build rifles in Kentucky. Daniel's rifles are extremely rare...in fact, in 35 years of chasing KY guns, I've never seen a totally original signed Daniel Bryan rifle with full patchbox...and this is only the third Lewis Bryan rifle that I've ever heard about, another of which is the better known "L. & W. Bryan" signed rifle made by Lewis and his younger brother William in the Bryan shop at what is today known as historic "Waveland" several miles south of Lexington. By the time Lewis and William were making guns, Daniel Bryan had become a successful businessman heavily involved in several other manufacturing enterprises on his farm (powder mill, paper mill, girls' school, stock breeding and farming), and his two older sons apparently took over much of the gun work. Even William Bryan's work is rare; I have only heard of one signed rifle with patchbox, and I have a second with badly damaged/destroyed stock with only metal parts surviving, which has since been accurately restocked to highlight the surviving signed barrel and signed patchbox. Bryan family work represents perhaps the most distinctive and best known style of early Kentucky gunmaking, done in/near Kentucky's most accomplished early town in the heart of the rich Bluegrass region, Lexington.

The "L. Bryan" rifle adds new knowledge to the study of early Kentucky guns. This particular rifle has several "non-standard" silver inlays on the wrist, cheek, and butt. In addition, the distinctive Lexington style molding lines below the cheek and as lower butt and forestock moldings vary slightly from the traditional Lexington style. These "differences" when found on a signed rifle will now allow us to identify more readily unsigned Lexington rifles (many are unsigned) as possible products of the Bryan shop, whereas before we would have thought they were "different" and therefore probably by another hand. A final comment on the L. Bryan rifle should help put it in better perspective. Among Bryan rifles, this particular rifle has more silver work than any other known Bryan rifle, putting it into a special classification. It also has a rare incised molding line along the butt's comb, most often associated with North Carolina rifles (where the Bryan's came from) but not seen before on a Bryan rifle. A final "plus" to this rifle is the fact that it has remained among descendants of the original owner up until this recent sale...so hopefully with a little follow-up in the weeks ahead, a few more facts about its past may be gathered that will remain with the rifle as it goes into the future. The rifle appears to have been cleaned in the past, and may have lost a few inches of its barrel on the muzzle end, but overall, it is a superior example of an extremely rare, important early rifle from Kentucky that most Kentuckians with a knowledge of the state's gunmaking history would love to own. The best single source of information on this maker, other Bryan gunsmiths, and the 1,100-plus early gunsmiths who worked in Kentucky is the recently published "Kentucky Gunmakers 1775-1900."

Shelby Gallien

« Last Edit: April 15, 2015, 07:50:14 AM by Tanselman »

eddillon

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Re: Auction ending today
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2015, 08:18:24 AM »
Shelby,
Congrats on a super acquisition.  This is one of those finds that we all dream about.

Offline Tony N

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Re: Auction ending today
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2015, 01:55:21 PM »
Congratulations!  Very nice piece!

~Tony

Offline Shreckmeister

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Re: Auction ending today
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2015, 02:41:20 PM »
Thanks for sharing the information on this interesting rifle with us Shelby.  Glad to see it in the hands of
someone who truly appreciates it.  Is there some connection between the Bryan's and the Gasper Mansker
rifle?  They remind me of each other.
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

Offline JTR

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Re: Auction ending today
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2015, 05:27:54 PM »
Nice buy Shelby!
It certainly went to the right guy!

John
John Robbins

eddillon

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Re: Auction ending today
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2015, 12:21:58 AM »
Shelby,
Is that the same rifle that is on the cover of  KENTUCKY GUNMAKERS?

Offline Buck

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Re: Auction ending today
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2015, 01:41:37 AM »
Shelby,
Glad you got it. Congratulations.
Buck

Offline whitebear

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Re: Auction ending today
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2015, 04:38:12 AM »
When I go to the link there is a quick flash of something on the monitor screen and then nothing.  How can I find pictures of this rifle?
In the beginning God...
Georgia - God's vacation spot

Offline Dave R

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Re: Auction ending today
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2015, 04:41:41 AM »
Shelby,
CONGRATS!!

Offline albert

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Re: Auction ending today
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2015, 04:49:57 AM »
pictures still there , scroll down ....
j albert miles

Offline Tanselman

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Re: Auction ending today
« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2015, 06:49:56 AM »
In response to a couple of questions:

1. This Lewis Bryan rifle is NOT the Lexington rifle pictured on the cover of Vol. II of "Kentucky Gunmakers 1775-1900," but the question highlights how similar in design many Lexington rifles are despite being made by different gunsmiths. Often Lexington rifles look identical from a distance, and the small differences that identify the individual maker are found in the terminations of the molding lines, length and tip shape of tang, shape of the triggers (particularly the front trigger decorated with a fancy tab at rear), and particularly the details/style of the engraved borders around the patchbox lid...which is carried over on the wrist and cheek inlays.

2. Yes, I believe the Lexington rifles are related to the Thomas Simpson rifle...but we haven't identified the exact connection yet, other than being made relatively close to each other in KY/TN.

3. At the top of my "Wouldn't it be great if..." wish-list would be discovering an early Kentucky era Francis Tansel carved horn with the owner's name...that matches up with the name on the lid of a Bryan or other Lexington style rifle. Both the rifles and the horns were made in the same area of central Kentucky, and undoubtedly the early Tansel horns primarily accompanied good Lexington style rifles. That little fact is another reason for why I enjoy Lexington rifles so much. It will probably never happen, but you just never know......

Shelby Gallien
« Last Edit: April 10, 2015, 09:55:53 PM by Tanselman »

kaintuck

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Re: Auction ending today
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2015, 10:49:50 PM »
Shelby,
It appears that the front sight is a 'in the barrel' sight, not dovetailed?

and the tang is straight, not flared~?

Looks like I can use a late ketland flintlock for my copy of a Lexington rifle~ as is this one looks close~ although changed to cap with a different hammer......?

marc n tomtom

Offline Tanselman

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Re: Auction ending today
« Reply #20 on: April 10, 2015, 02:33:01 AM »
Marc,  

The most common Lexington front sight is a silver blade set into a slot in the barrel. However, you also find some "standard" front sights with a dovetailed base. Tangs are straight with lozenge shaped finial with small shoulders at either side, and most tangs are the longer "two screw" type, i.e. front tang bolt with a wood screw at the rear to hold the tail down tightly...and probably strengthen a rather slim wrist area. The preferred locks on early Lexington rifles were "T. Ketland" flints of a rather smallish size. I've gone through virtually all the surviving issues of the Kentucky Gazette newspaper published in Lexington during its infancy, and there are a number of ads for locks and gun parts...most ads for locks specifically mention Ketland locks.

So Marc, who can do the best distressing of a rifle with antiqued finish, you or Tomtom???


Shelby Gallien
« Last Edit: April 10, 2015, 07:48:02 PM by Tanselman »

kaintuck

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Re: Auction ending today
« Reply #21 on: April 10, 2015, 02:24:53 PM »
Shelby,
The last rifle I finished was the "Barrens rifle" with the Burton 40cal 46-1/2" straight barrel....and I placed a in-the-barrel front sight.....looked rather good!....so I'll do that on the Lexington rifle too.
I will take the flair outta the current Rice tang, and cut the end in a small decorative touch.....

I am anxious to see what Wayne has picked out for me on the red maple.....he said he had his eye on a blank, and would soon ship it to me.....

As for that big Tom shop kat....funny you should ask.....I was working yesterday on the Christian Spring rifle, all the metal was removed, and I slip a big wooden dowel in to replace the barrel, and then double vise everything to plane/scrape the forearm down......and here comes tomtom walking down the wood....at 15pounds, he can sometimes get a few "used holes" with them claws :P
But heh, I'm glad not to travel thru this world devoid of my four footed friends........its life to be enjoyed!!

Hope that Florida weather is treating you guys well.....we FINALLY are not having frost every morning here in tenn!

Marc n tomtom

George Roberts

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Re: Auction ending today
« Reply #22 on: April 14, 2015, 12:29:50 AM »
Thank you for all the information about the "L. Bryan" rifle.  I have also enjoyed your fantastic article "The Gilston Duelers: Survivors of Kentucky's Code Duelo" in this month's Muzzle Blasts.
George

Offline Tanselman

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Re: Auction ending today
« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2015, 06:46:40 AM »
George, 

Thanks for the comments on the article about the Gilston pistols. They are a great pair of pistols that I knew about for years and more recently was fortunate to acquire. There were a lot of duels fought in Kentucky, but virtually no sets of early Kentucky-made pistols have  survived...except for the Gilstons. I hope I see another set of signed, maple stocked Kentucky pistols some day...but I'm not holding my breath!   

Shelby 

Offline Tanselman

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Re: Auction ending today
« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2015, 11:54:21 PM »
For those of you who followed the sale of the Bryan rifle, I thought I'd offer a brief up-date on the gun after getting a chance to inspect and study it for a while. The gun is in nice shape with a great color/finish. It has had some minor/professional restoration, including replacing a lost toe plate (not engraved as it should have been) and two forestock silver inlays on front side, and the brass was cleaned in the past, but is starting to mellow back down. The barrel was shortened about 5 inches during its working life, well done by a gunsmith. The gun raises two interesting (to me, at least) issues, which I thought I'd share:

1. Was it used in the War of 1812?  The gun has a family history of use in the War of 1812 by its original owner, Charles Hazelrigg of Bourbon County, KY. His name, as "C. Hazelrigg," appears on the patchbox lid inlay. In checking KY's War of 1812 records, Charles Hazelrigg did serve in the war for KY. serving from August 26, 1813 to November 5, 1813. He was a private in Capt. James Sympson's company, Kentucky Mounted Volunteer Militia, Col. John Donaldson, Commander. Hazelrigg marched up to Canada with Gen. Wm. H. Harrison's army in late 1813 and fought at the Battle of Thames where Shawnee war chief Tecumseh was killed and the British routed.

My first thought was the gun was a little too late - ca. early 1820s - to have been at the Battle of Thames on Oct. 5, 1813, based on its small caliber, .32-.33, and slim butt at 1.38" thickness. But after looking at the lock plate again, with its "tail," and looking at the butt thickness of several other Lexington rifles of the era, I now think the gun could have been there, as the family says, and was perhaps made just before the war...despite the smallish caliber.

2. A related issue is the rifle's shortened barrel. While I have no way of proving the following, and perhaps it's more fantasy than fact, the shortened barrel actually intrigues me on this rifle. It was professionally done by a gunsmith based on the very neat re-shaping of the forestock and termination of the forestock molding lines. It was cut at the muzzle, and the muzzle was re-stamped with small arcs around the bore. Another Bryan rifle I have, by William T. Bryan, brother of maker of this rifle, was also shortened at muzzle and had similar small arcs punched around the new muzzle...perhaps alterations done by same gunsmith, but probably not a Bryan, since the reshaping of forestock varies from their normal work. So this brings up the "intriguing" thought...was the gun shortened just before Charles Hazelrigg  joined the mounted volunteer militia, knowing he had to carry/use the rifle at times from horseback? The alteration is old and well done, and was done at the muzzle, so was not a later "standard" shortening when the gun eventually was "percussed."

Just a couple thoughts on a very interesting rifle, at least to KY collectors. One final comment. While I have not received any family history or information regarding the rifle yet (but it's on the way), I found out the original hunting bag still exists and will soon join the rifle again...can't wait to see it, if it is actually the correct bag for this rifle, since the rifle was a high grade gun in its day, so the bag should be pretty decent as well. Hope those interested in this rifle enjoy the follow-up comments.

P.S. I intend to do an article on the Bryan rifles and their War of 1812 owners. Does anyone by chance know of another signed Bryan rifle out there, other than the "D. Bryan" owned by Jim C. down there? If so, I'd greatly appreciate hearing about it. On the other hand, I've chased them for many years, and haven't found much out there.

Shelby Gallien