How About A 200 Yard Round Ball Match?

[westerner]

Mine wasnt either.

The triggers quit working on my rifle anyway, so I'll fix it and be ready for the next one. I havent shot it for ten years or better.

I'll keep an eye on this thread.


                      Joe.

[Candle Snuffer]

When we start moving towards better weather we'll start making plans for our next 200 yard match.  The more that get in this, the more fun we have! 

[Daryl]

It will be interesting to see how my new aquisition works. So far, so good.  I've done a bit of re-modeling and re-finishing. The sights seemed to work Ok on New Years day, but will paper it on Saturday coming to make sure.
Before, but with hammers lowered over the fences.



After with bright shiny parts blued, including lock plate, trigger plate and tang. Yes, it's a double .58. I also removed the 16 oz. bar of lead form the butt stock, reducing the weight to 9 1/2 pounds, about right for a double.

[Candle Snuffer]

I can hardly wait for the report on it shoots, Daryl.  Great looking double rifle.  That could become a favorite in a hurry I would sure think.

[Daryl]

It wil become one of the favourites, but the 14 bore will never be usrurped - unless a 14 bore double was to come along.

[The other DWS]

this sounds real interesting to me.  like an old german swiss schuetzen match.    I might try my original at it and see what happens later in the Spring at the ASSRA's  200 yd range at Etna Green IN.  I can't use it in our regular matches (they are set up for cartridge single shots only) but I live close enough to drive down and shot there most any weekend when there is not an organized match

Of course my schuetzen rifle is twisted for conicals and has an aperture rear sight---no provision for an open sight.  Any idea how a patched round b all would shoot @ 200 out of a 1:24 barrel? 

[Daryl]

24" is pretty fast to allow enough powder for 200 yards - but with a calm day, you just never know.

[The other DWS]

dunno about the technical diff. between loading with round ball and conicals, other than the "traditional wisdom" that a faster twist works better with the latter. { Daryl,  How does a twist rate "allow" more or less powder? I can see how barrel length affects powder charge burnrate efficiency but don't understand how the twist would fit in }

  BUT the standard schuetzen game was shot at 200 yards.  lots of latitude in arms, loads and sights, but offhand at 200 yards was pretty much an "article of faith" both in the M/L and cartridge eras of the sport.   Everything I've read seems to indicate that the M/L Schuetzen rifles were shot with some variation of conical bullet.

[Daryl]

A 70" twist will let (allow) you use more powder than will a 24" twist, both shooting a round ball.  More powder means flatter trajectory and easier hitting at longer range. A .50 with a 70" twist will allow or maybe even demand 120gr. of 2F for an accuracy load for long range shooting.  I'd guess a 24" twist might be 'done' at 50gr., especially with shallow .004" deep 'bullet' rifling.  I once got pretty good accuracy in a .50 with a 48" twist, .004" rlfing by using a .495" ball and .022" patch along with 90gr. 2F, but that's only 1/2 the twist of a 24" twist.  Seemed anything looser, would shoot innacurately, whether due to stripping or some other reason, I don't know.

[The other DWS]

Ok now I think I follow the logic--maybe.

 With a faster twist rate and lead round balls and patches, too much powder might drive the bullet too fast causing it to skip/strip in the rifling,   so you'd have to use less powder/less velocity/greater arc to the trajectory to get max accuracy.  but the slower velocity would cause a slower rate of rotation which might or might not cause degradation of accuracy, especially with a roundball

  with the same diameter bore and a slower twist you could use more powder for more velocity and maybe get the same or better rotational rate for accuracy at the higher velocity,  more energy and flatter trajectory

[Daryl]

Yep- I guess - although the twists don't have to be as slow as many barrel makes make them today.  I've a 66" twist in a .69 that makes 1" to 1 1/2" 5 shot groups at 100 meters and last summer made me a 6 shot group of 1 1/4" X 3 1/2" at 200 yards- off the bags, of course.  "Even with that 66" twist, it took 140gr. of powder to do it at both ranges.  Less powder opens groups.  If that rifle had a 100' twist, I don't know how much powder it would need to shoot as accurately, or even if it would shoot as accurately.  It would allow a loose combo and still hold the rifling, though.  I currently have to use a .684" ball with a .030" denim patch, although a .675" ball shoots almost as well with the same patch, but not quite.
Guns are interesting in what they demand in order to shoot longer ranges.  For the .69, that's including 50 yards and farther out.

[The other DWS]

just out of curiousos-ity any idea what the twist rates were for those super long prone target rifles used in Appalachia?  I think they were called "chunk guns"  some of the old pictures seem to show rifles with 6 foot barrels.  I've got a PDF of an old article--maybe from a '30s Am Rifleman--saved on my other 'puter at home,  describing a match

[Daryl]

Can't help there, perhaps Ed or someone else has measured an original. I would guess at around 48" as that seemed about standard.  There was a 50-something calibre original chunk gun at Dixons last July - but I don't know the rifling rate. The gun appeared to weight under 30 pounds, but perhpas not by much. The barrel was around 38" long, IIRC.