Scottish Pistol & Sword

[Majorjoel]

I find myself totally like a fish out of water with these two old pieces. Anyone here have any idea's about the age, or any information I would find most helpful. Many thanks......Joel     

[Majorjoel]

                         

[Majorjoel]

   

[Hungry Horse]

 A brace of similarly marked Scottish pistols were recovered from one of the early battles of the revolutionary war. But they may have been old pistols at that time.
 No clue on the sword, is the legend on the blade more readable in person?

             Hungry Horse

[Majorjoel]

HH, I believe this is a better picture of the sword stamp.  4 REG VIRG CAVALRY ESSEX..

[smart dog]

Hi Joel,
John Pitcairn made plain military pistols and stamped them "J O Pitcairn" on the lockplates.  His is a Scottish name but I have no info n where he worked.  He seems to have been active during 1755-1775.  Does the pistol have a highland lock with a lateral sear coming through the plate and holding back the front of the flint cock or is it a standard flintlock?

Thanks for posting the photos.

dave

[Majorjoel]

Hi Dave, and thank you for your input on the pistol! It has a highland lock with lateral sear as you described. The spelling on the "lock plate"  is JO PETCAIRN.  When I did a search I came up with an English Major John Pitcairn who may have carried such a pistol with him during the battle of Lexington. Supposedly lost during the excitement and later picked up and presented to Gen. Israel Putnum.   That pistol (very fancy) is out east in a museum display.  I have been doing as much research on the web about these Scottish all metal pistols and haven't yet found anything on PETCAIRN, spelled with an E instead of the usual I.  Pitcairn always comes back to the English major.  The sword and the pistol came out of the same old collection.       

[smart dog]

Hi Joel,
Petcairn is not the major or captain Pitcairn killed at Breeds Hill.  I believe the pistols associated with him were made by Campbell or Christie but I am not sure.  

dave

[Bill Paton]

Joel, I have a thick book of Scottish Arms Makers at home, but i won’t be home for 10 more days. I can check it then.  Bill Paton

[JTR]

Joel,
Gardners' Small Arms Makers lists J. Petcairn, Maker of Highlander Pistols, Scotland, 1775. Page 303.

You're sure this isn't another one of your 'finds'!

John

[T.C.Albert]

Jo Pitcairn did make plain military steel pistols...he worked up to 1775 I believe....but because his pistols are plain, I would go out on a limb and say they are some of the ones most commonly reproduced these days and in the recent past too...and I don't know what one needs to look for to authenticate an old one...enlarged vent hole from much use...worn frizzen...weak springs....worn bore...replaced screws or other parts, old time screw threads...and definitely proper proof marks??? Original military arms likely saw hard use, and some of it should show...  
tc

[Majorjoel]

Dave, thank you again. It is just what always comes up online when I try to find anything on Petcairn.  Bill Patton, very much appreciated, and will patiently await your reply upon your return, a safe journey for you sir!                     JTR, John, Many thanks for the Gardner reference! I really need to get a copy of that book!  "Another find" well, yes, but with my limited knowledge and lack of good precise research material, I'm doing my "homework" before any acquisition comes about. This is a new ball game and I am kind of unsure if I want to play in this one.  The potential History here has really perked my neck hairs on these!   I will add that this pistol is just one of a pair. The other, while not an exact match, is a bit fancier with just an engraved set of initials on the lock plate.  "A C".   I speculate perhaps, Alexander Campbell. ? ?   I did find some good info on this sword. I hope I am not treading on forum taboo with this, but an old book has been brought to my attention.        

[Majorjoel]

 Thank you TC for your information and insights with this. I truly understand the market place is flooded with a lot of spurious pieces out there. I will do everything I can to prove or disprove the authenticity of these items. Not just for myself, but for the current owner/seller as well.     

[smart dog]

Hi Joel,
Dewitt Bailey includes a photo of a pistol identical to yours by Petcairn on page 172 of his book "Small Arms of the British Forces in America".  The photo was credited to Don Troiani so it may be in his collection.  Unfortunately, Bailey does not supply any further information about that specific pistol.

dave

[Steve Collward]

Joel:
  Carey's "English, Irish and Scottish Firearms Makers" has an entry for John Petcairn "[about 1775] Shop at Edinburgh, Scotland. Made all metal flintlock pistols with scroll butt."

[Majorjoel]

Much appreciated Steve, Dave, Tim, and all!

[Feltwad]

John Pitcain  1750-75 shop in Edinburgh Scotland  made plain military pistols with rams horn butts.
Feltwad