Author Topic: ok gang here we go with a couple hawken guestions  (Read 6981 times)

Offline Joe S.

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ok gang here we go with a couple hawken guestions
« on: April 24, 2015, 04:07:43 PM »
 will try to look thru the old posts to answer most of my questions.Anyways been looking over some of the really nice longstocks done by you folks and looking over some originals.Question,that detail in some of the cheeks,that slot cut at the base and rounded over.Is that dated to a particular period or more a hey that's different,good idea?Also the curves of the butt,somebody said they can be wrong.Looking over both originals and new builds seems the difference are not to far off from build to build.Any side by side shots to really get a better look at this.May have to do a road to Dixon's and look thru the parts,always helps me to see things in the real.Getting back to the cheek,think I would have to really look the grain over before doing some things.I could see a blow out at either end of that detail if the grain is not perfect.thoughts?thanks

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: ok gang here we go with a couple hawken guestions
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2015, 01:02:25 AM »
EEEEAAKKKK! HAWKEN QUESTIONS! ;)
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline rich pierce

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Re: ok gang here we go with a couple hawken guestions
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2015, 01:04:05 AM »
Joe S, not sure exactly what you are asking about he cheek piece shaping. 
Andover, Vermont

Offline Don Stith

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Re: ok gang here we go with a couple hawken guestions
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2015, 02:12:37 AM »
Joe
 Where are you located? I could answer all your Hawken questions in an hour of letting you hold a couple than we can cover here in a year
Don

Offline Joe S.

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Re: ok gang here we go with a couple hawken guestions
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2015, 02:40:43 AM »
not to far from Dixon's shop in Pennsylvania

Offline Chuck Burrows

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Re: ok gang here we go with a couple hawken guestions
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2015, 02:47:43 AM »
Joe S, not sure exactly what you are asking about he cheek piece shaping. 
I think he means the paneled check pieces seen on some later Sam Hawken rifles

Take up Don's generous offer lucky dog  ;D
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I,
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.

Offline Joe S.

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Re: ok gang here we go with a couple hawken guestions
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2015, 02:57:28 AM »
as far as the cheek is concerned some have a slot cut at the base of the cheek and is rounded over while most don't have this detail.I'm taking the early style cheek not the later halfstocks.The slot is  about 3\4" or so up and runs the length of the cheek and is rounded over.

Offline Dave B

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Re: ok gang here we go with a couple hawken guestions
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2015, 03:03:19 AM »
Joe, Don Stith is one of our most knowledgeable members here when it comes to Hawken rifles. I only wish he lived on our side of the country. You should go check out his web page. He as lots of great information. I am not sure of your terminology with regard to the cheek piece. Hawken rifles have several types of cheek pieces. The earlier full stock rifles tended to have a cheek piece much like the standard Kentucky rifle (can you even say that). The face of the molded section would some times have a flute or a couple incises lines carved into them. The more common type of cheek piece is the beaver tail style. It was used on the full stock rifles as well as the half stock rifles. There is a step to some of these that surrounds the bottom line sweeping around to terminate at the area closest to the butt plate. I dont think this groove or step feature is on all the beaver tail cheek pieces but I have seen it on quite a few of them in pictures. Others may chime in on this for you. The first one is from Don Stith.





« Last Edit: December 05, 2020, 09:25:12 PM by Dave B »
Dave Blaisdell

Offline Joe S.

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Re: ok gang here we go with a couple hawken guestions
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2015, 03:15:33 AM »
your first photo is the one,early style and the detail or "flute" is what I'm talking about.Just wondering if that's specific to a certain time frame or was put on any early hawken as a so called option.

Offline Chuck Burrows

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Re: ok gang here we go with a couple hawken guestions
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2015, 03:56:10 AM »
your first photo is the one,early style and the detail or "flute" is what I'm talking about.Just wondering if that's specific to a certain time frame or was put on any early hawken as a so called option.

That was the style cheek piece used only on Hawken fullstocks and was the standard with the fluting so not an option per se  (as far as I know there is no known halfstock still in existence that has that style). It was used in all periods from the 1820's to the 1850's. As noted above it's the same basic style cheek piece that is common to most/all eastern made long rifles - a style Jake and Sam learned from their father, gunmaker Christian Hawken of Maryland.
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I,
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.

Offline Don Stith

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Re: ok gang here we go with a couple hawken guestions
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2015, 05:01:21 AM »
Guys
 I had a mini stroke last Friday. All the scans show no brain or heart damage, but it leaves you thinking about what is going on in your life. Not likely to be going to Dixons. Don't think I lost any memory.  The offer is open to Joe, in an effort to promote new interest. He'll have to do the travelling though.
 Just finished up the parts to replicate the Medina, including the lock. Wish I had the time to complete one to promote it.  Finally have a mold being made to match the Carson lock.  Been letting guys make do with the Davis which is undersize. Can't expect Bob Roller to make these locks forever when I need one for my own projects.

Offline drago

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Re: ok gang here we go with a couple hawken guestions
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2015, 05:36:51 AM »
Don, sorry to hear about your problems. I hope everything comes out well for you.

Offline rich pierce

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Re: ok gang here we go with a couple hawken guestions
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2015, 05:52:32 AM »
Don, thanks for all you do.  Good to hear the stroke was minor.
Andover, Vermont

Offline Joe S.

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Re: ok gang here we go with a couple hawken guestions
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2015, 02:15:22 PM »
Don hope your doing well and am sorry to hear about your health. I would like to go over some things with you and see some of your hawken rifles.Not sure where your at and would be up for a road trip work schedule permitting but more important is you getting better.If the doctors say take a brake,listen!Thank you for a very generous offer.

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: ok gang here we go with a couple hawken guestions
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2015, 03:10:10 PM »
Guys
 I had a mini stroke last Friday. All the scans show no brain or heart damage, but it leaves you thinking about what is going on in your life. Not likely to be going to Dixons. Don't think I lost any memory.  The offer is open to Joe, in an effort to promote new interest. He'll have to do the travelling though.
 Just finished up the parts to replicate the Medina, including the lock. Wish I had the time to complete one to promote it.  Finally have a mold being made to match the Carson lock.  Been letting guys make do with the Davis which is undersize. Can't expect Bob Roller to make these locks forever when I need one for my own projects.

Don,
I'll tell you what I told Bill Large years ago after he had a mini stroke and passed out.
That was a warning like the oil pressure light on the car's oil pressure flashing for a second
or two.Bill was one that doctored himself with home remedies when he should have been on
a proven blood pressure medication.

Bob Roller

Offline Herb

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Re: ok gang here we go with a couple hawken guestions
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2015, 07:57:34 PM »
The third stock pictured above in Dave B's post is a J&S Hawken in the museum in Helena, MT where Jim Bridger's rifle is located.  I posted other photos of it on this forum.  I just checked through Jim Gordon's book "Great Gunmakers for the Early West, Volume III- Western U.S.".  Pictured are some of the rifles in his museum in Glorieta, NM.

The first fullstock is brass mounted and has a "Tennessee or straight cheek piece" as Gordon describes it.  It has the incised line.  It is in the Buffalo Bill Historical Center, which web site you can look up.  Second is a  J&S fullstock cut to halfstock, same style of incised cheekpiece.  JG's collection.  Third is a fullstock with barrel markings illegible, incised edge, JG.  Fourth is another with illegible barrel markings but "early features", incised line, JG.  Fifth is a fullstock S. Hawken, with square cheek piece but no incised line.  Similar to the Stith rifle except for the comb nose.  JG.  Sixth is a S. Hawken fullstock with the square cheek piece, incised.  BBHC.  

Then there are five "light sporting rifles"  First is brass mounted with a beavertail cheekpiece, S. Hawken.  JG.  Second a brass mounted with square incised cheek piece.  JG.  Third, ditto.  JG.  Fourth steel mounted with square cheekpiece, incised.  Fifth,  S. Hawken, brass mounted, square incised cheekpiece, BBHC.

Then there is a W.S. Hawken halfstock with a patchbox similar to Mariano Medina's, one key, a checkered wrist, and a square cheekpiece incised on the edge.  Hey, it is a "Hawken".  JG.

Then there is a J.A. Maltby, Galena, ILL halfstock percussion rifle .  One key.  Spurred trigger guard.  Square incised cheekpiece. JG.  Not a Hawken, but a plains rifle style.




« Last Edit: April 26, 2015, 08:00:44 PM by Herb »
Herb

galamb

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Re: ok gang here we go with a couple hawken guestions
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2015, 11:15:51 PM »
Here is three more Sam Hawken rifles (so post 1849) that have the eastern style cheek.

The first two are "full stocked".

The last is one of his squirrel/turkey/local rifles, single keyed. I looked and can't find a pic of half stock with the eastern cheek.

Looking through my collection of Hawken (specs) I can not find a half stock, greater than 40 cal, that has the eastern cheek style.

Anyhow, here's the pics - so it seems more the style of the rifle (full stock or Squirrel) that might have "inspired" the cheek design.






Offline Don Stith

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Re: ok gang here we go with a couple hawken guestions
« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2015, 03:00:27 PM »
Joe
 You have a PM
Don