Original Hunting Pouch & Powder Horn

[Majorjoel]

Recently acquired this Hunting outfit that came out of an old family's collection. Their g grandfather came from the Akron Ohio area. This is a machine sewed product that I'd sure like to figure a close date to put on it. It's condition is pretty volatile with only about 1\3 of it's shoulder strap remaining. It has the number "72" sewn into the closure strap which makes me wonder if this was some sort of hardware store production product?? Has been repaired with some hand stitching, showing that it was used for a good long time. Also came with the small round ball mold and this powder horn. The family also had a nice longrifle that came down through time with this hunting pouch set. I was told the rifle had been previously sold to an antique dealer from the Midwest?? A true shame to have been separated!                     

[okieboy]

 Very nice.
 Seeing this brings up the question of leather conservation. Even if an old pouch like this is placed in a case an never handled, it will continue to get drier and considering that this was probably bark tanned, i.e. tannic acid, will probably turn to dust the way acid-pulp paper does.
 I have treated dry leather with olive oil or a mixture of lemon oil and beeswax, but I am no expert. Perhaps we have someone with museum conservation knowledge that could comment.
 Very nice set.

[Majorjoel]

Thanks okieboy, just taking this pouch out for an afternoon photo shoot, I left a pretty good debris field on my old background blanket! I have been storing it in a zip lock bag that is left unzipped so that air can get to it and moisture stays away.  I once used Outers Neats Foot oil on some old leather horse tac. It seemed to bring it back somewhat.  I would appreciate any advise regarding this, before I do anything.    I keep trying to put up a few more pictures, but when I go to paste them up, they are not there. This has happened to me quite a bit from Photobucket.        

[Shreckmeister]

Joel,  You sure that aint your granny's purse   I have a few old pouches that look like that.  Not sure what
to do with mine either.  I made the mistake of putting mink oil on one of them.  Don't do that.

[Shreckmeister]

Well you could incase them in a glass box where the oxygen has been replaced with a gas to prevent
further detioration, but unless George Washington carried one of them, you might get in over your head

[Chuck Burrows]

Based on the machine sewing I would date this poiuch to post 1880. While viable sewing machines had been around since 1849, dedicated leather machines were first introduced in 1878 or thereabouts. There were still lots of muzzleloaders being sold as late as the 1890's (in some areas even later) to those wanting a less expensive firearm than the repeaters. The type and color of the discoloration on the pouch may mean it was hemlock tanned, which presented some unique problems for dying.

As for conservatorship of the pouch - IMO do some research online or seek professional help via a museum, etc., because based on the amount and type of damage oiling or conditioning can increase the damage. Bark/veg tanned leather can get what is called red rot due to pollution, and once it sets in there is no turning back so a hermetically sealed case may be the best way to save.

It seems to be of a nice well thought out design.

[whitebear]

Pictures of the inside of the bag would be nice but if not then a good description would be appreciated.

[Majorjoel]

Thank you Chuck for all of your knowledgeable opinions about this hunting pouch. The only way I can get more pictures up is to put in this link: http://s445.photobucket.com/user/joelhall452/slideshow/

[okieboy]

 Here is an interesting link on conservation.
http://nautarch.tamu.edu/CRL/conservationmanual/File7.htm

[Majorjoel]

Thank you okieboy! I guess if the big time museums use these treatments it must be OK! It will be fun to experiment with these concoctions!

[Virginiarifleman]

Your Pouch has a Virginia influence about it. has Virginia Features.

[James Rogers]

Can you elaborate on the specific Virginia features you speak of?
Thanks

[Warner]

After reviewing the photos again, I'm going to go out on the limb--I believe it is a repurposed bag,perhaps a military saddle bag.

[Virginiarifleman]

James, simply that it is D shaped and it has a strap closure on the flap. alot of Virginia style bags had those features too. just my observation.

[JoeG]

After reviewing the photos again, I'm going to go out on the limb--I believe it is a repurposed bag,perhaps a military saddle bag.

That was my first thought also

[ScottH]

If I had it I would put this leather cream on it inside and out. I have this and use it on veg tanned leather goods, scabbards, holsters, etc.

http://www.skidmores.com/products.asp?cat=14

[Clark Badgett]

I'm with the repurposed saddle bag crowd. And why do you think it's machine sewn?

[Majorjoel]

I'm with the repurposed saddle bag crowd. And why do you think it's machine sewn?

                                                                                                                            I just figured that it looked like machine sewing to me. If there are\were folks that can\could stitch through leather that straight and fine, I would sure like to know more about how to tell the difference between hand and machine stitching?

[Chuck Burrows]

FWIW - yes there are folks that can hand sew better than a macine. In fact the quality of a leather sewing machine's stitch is based on how well it compares to good hand sewing.

IMO - Looking at a picture only such as this and deciding the type of sewing is virtually impossible. With the bag in hand one can check the type of stitch - a machine will use a type of lock stitch where in the bobbin thread forms a loop and the top thread is pulled though the loop. On hand sewing there should be two separate threads that are not locked into each other. Easier to show someone than describe it.....

[Clark Badgett]

I'm with the repurposed saddle bag crowd. And why do you think it's machine sewn?

                                                                                                                            I just figured that it looked like machine sewing to me. If there are\were folks that can\could stitch through leather that straight and fine, I would sure like to know more about how to tell the difference between hand and machine stitching?

Like Chuck said, proper hand stitched leather by someone with the skill to do so, is about as perfect as you can get. I've seen British military leather items that were made by the cheapest contractor with stitching that was 12 or more stitches per inch, and all done by hand and done perfectly. Back when people apprenticed at a young age to learn any trade they usually were very good at it by the time they were done with apprenticeship. In fact I've heard all my life from knowledgeable people that brown leather was preferred for high end leather goods because any imperfection was easily noticed and therefore easily rejected. Don't know if that is true or not.

[Majorjoel]

Thank you Chuck and Clark for your comments about hand stitching. Learning new things is what this hobby is all about! I will get this bag out to a good period show and have a few experts take a first hand look at it.  Until then, it will stay as it is without any leather treatments, stored away in an open plastic zip lock bag.