Those who have and those who will !

[cowboys1062]

 I currently have not yet Dry Balled any of my muzzleloaders but am smart enough to know it's just a matter of time before I eventually will. I have a cork screw ball puller that I can place on the end of my range rod to pull the ball out of the barrel when this does happen. I've read where others used CO2 Dischargers to shoot the ball out down range. I was just wondering if you could remove the nipple and sprinkle enough blackpowder in the nipple hole and place the nipple back on and shoot it out that way? Will the nipple hole hold enough of a charge to shoot the ball out of the barrel? I'm just curious and wondering if this also could work. It's just a matter of time before I join the Dry Ball Club and become its newest member! Can anyone share their experiences and insight on the matter? Respectfully, cowboys1062.

[docone]

You haven't lived yet! You are still a toddler in muzzies.
When I do it, and I have several times. Once in a row!
Discharge the ball, load a dry ball, disccharge the ball, load a dry ball. Take a reflective break and start again!
To answer the question, Removing the nipple and filling the cavity is how I do it.
I load some powder, screw in the nipple, fire it. Remove the nipple, put in a littlel more powder, replace the nipple and fire it out.
Suprisingly, with such light loads, I have never found any balls or patches from dry balling it.
You ain't lived untill you feel the embarassement from doing a dry ball. Everyone at the range trys to help.
I spent weeks reviewing how I did it.
It is a reality though.

[Molly]

HA HA....just you wait!  Have been there many times.  It was panic at first but now seems second nature.  So, here is my experiences.  Yes, I have heard of the CO2 method.  And yes I have heard of the down the nipple or touch hole method.  Just for fun I tried the touch hole method by getting as much 4f in the breach as I could.  It blew the ball to within about 6 inches of the muzzle and I removed it the old fashioned way.  I have settled into the following approach.

First, I know the harder it goes down, the harder it might be to pull out so I don't try to use an excessively thick patch.
Secondly, it is essential to have a ball puller that is specific for the caliber.  Those have a small caliber sized ring around them to keep the screw centered on the ball.  Personally, while I have both the old very pointed screw and a more typical wood screw puller I like the old pointed type best.  Got mine from Track of the Wolf.
Third, you cannot likely get the screw in the ball if the end of the rod rotates, such as the way you find rod tips on many commercially available cleaning rods.  I use an extra wooden rod that is a little stronger to handle the "pressure" and yet still go down the bore.
The last problem I had to solve was not having long enough arms to hold the rifle AND get the rod/ball all the way out.  No problem if there is someone around who can hold the gun, but if your alone it poses a dilemma.   My solution was to fix a handle on the rod that can be wedged against another object making the rod stationary and then actually pulling on the rifle.

It like the first time you soloed.  Always a student but then you became a pilot!

[SCLoyalist]

The three ways I know of to get a dryball out of a caplock are powder under the nipple (or into the cleanout screw if there is one),  screw type worm, or CO2 discharger.   Any can work, but any can fail as well, depending on conditions.    (Actually, there's a fourth way - unbreeching, but it's obviously a last resort.)

CO2 has the advantage that it's probably quickest, which is an advantage if you have to use it in the middle of a match relay where time is a factor.   Sometimes (especially on a flinter) you can't get a good enough gas seal to build up sufficient pressure to move the ball.  

Powder under the nipple will work, the finer grain the better.  If the first try doesn't clear the ball from the barrel,  you can repeat the process but remember to seat  the ball back atop the powder so you don't have an air gap between powder and ball.   And remember that the 'dryball' might actually be a misfire, so keep the barrel pointed in a safe direction at all times in case there's a loud boom when the ball does come out.

Ball puller has the potential of drilling a hole clean through the  ball and stripping out when you pull, leaving you a lead donut down there that the puller can no longer screw into and that now can't be removed by CO2 or powder, so I try the other methods first.  For the screw puller,  I'd recommend using a metal range rod with a brass muzzle protector collar when possible.

All the methods work best if you clean the bore to get most of the fouling out and put a little lube down to slick things up and reduce the work the CO2/powder/worm has to do to get the ball and patch out.     

[smylee grouch]

All good advice that will work but if you want embaresment, try shooting your ramrod down range.  It can be a spiritual event.   

[Molly]

I have a friend who keeps telling stories about the battles with I....er, I mean, Native Americans and when they advanced before the ball went down they used to shoot the ram rods!  Sounds unlikely but who knows.

I never thought of drilling totally through the ball.  I see that could be a problem.  I generally don't think I turn the rod enough to do that but will certainly think about it next time.  Cleaning the bore before attempting to pull it is a great thought.  I did have a cleaning brush strip out way down the barrel.  That was a near panic situation.  I also had a plastic tube from a can of lub shoot out and down the barrel.  I messed with that for what seemed like an hour.  You would think it would just shake out but not so.  Also had a patch slip off the muzzle and the ball went down sans patch.  Here again, I would have thought it would have rolled right out but NO...had to use the ball puller.  Distraction during the loading process is clearly the problem and it's good to keep in mind that such distractions can cause problems as well as serious injury.

[T*O*F]

it is essential to have a ball puller that is specific for the caliber.  Those have a small caliber sized ring around them to keep the screw centered on the ball.

Not really essential.  All you have to do is run the screw thru 2 0r 3 patches.  They will keep it centered when shoved down the bore.  If you use damp patches, they will soften the fouling making it easier to pull the ball once you get the screw into it.

[Daryl]

Generaly, get powder beneath the ball, through the vent or nipple seat and shoot it out. Barring that, pulling with a screw also works.  At the start of our trail, Taylor mounted a bracket in a tree to hold the T handle of a stainless rod. The rod is drilled and tapped for a number of different sized ball screws, kept in a plastic Speer bullet box, also mounted on the tree. This system gets used a couple or few times a year, but mostly guys simply get some powder in behind the ball- through the vent or nipple seat and shoot it out. It's fun trying to hit a close handgun gong with the squib load- pop--------ding!

[hanshi]

Not only have I dry balled more times than I can remember but I've also "dry patched".  Only a couple of times so far and I don't want another.  "Dry patched", in this instance, is getting a paper patch/wad in the breech.  You can't easily shoot these buggers out and rather than coming out whole (using a worm or screw), they shred.

[Dewey]

Not really essential.  All you have to do is run the screw thru 2 0r 3 patches.  They will keep it centered when shoved down the bore.  If you use damp patches, they will soften the fouling making it easier to pull the ball once you get the screw into it.

Great idea - thanks !!!

And I can personally state that while watching your ramrod fly downrange is an EXPERIENCE, I don't know about it being SPIRITUAL ... especially with all that cussing going on !!!!   

[mmprwarner]

Good afternoon
Having pulled blown out and put powder behind more balls than I care to think about. At one shoot where we had about 180 shooters. It seems that I remember removing about 50 balls in one day, the common sense God's were angry with us all the advice above is pretty good. I have to go along with. When I do use as a last resort a ball screw I just simply screw it down two or three batches put some moose milk or other lubricant on it, even sometimes pouring some moose milk or other lubricant directly down the barrel to soften the patch that's down there. My favorite method of removal is the CO2 blowing tool. I have even created one that uses a 24 ounce paintball bottle to have a larger portable one for larger events. I also carry a priming flask with 7F powder and it has proved to be very valuable on nipple guns. I do it by determining if the ball is all the way down, putting the powder in through either the nipple or the cleanout hole. If the ball does not clear the barrel on the first time I will put another quantity of powder. Be careful not too much, and pushing the ball back down against it usually on the second attempt. It will come out a couple of things to remember very fine powder burns very fast don't get overly happy with it, and when using a CO2 discharge, or if the ball only goes partially down the barrel, be sure to push it back to just in front of the nipple and try it again. This is normally done in the longer chunk gun style barrels. At any rate, that's my throw on the situation. First and foremost will removing a ball keep people from out in front of the muzzle. Remember, although it didn't want to go off, it still load. Stay safe and have a wonderful day

[Vomitus]

   I never dry ball! 

[sloe bear]

 ::)I have to agree, there's nothing like sending a ramrod down range, after a shoot we had a youngster stick his ramrod after a lot of pulling and tugging we decided to shoot the thing out ,we trickled some 4ff under the nipple and behind the rod we touched it off never to be seen again, up over the tee pee into the woods. but it worked.

[Molly]

OK, maybe "essential" is overstating it but what is critical is to keep the tip of the screw centered on the ball and a caliber specific collar will do it.  I suppose several patches will as well but have never tried that.  And a collar on the top of the rod at the muzzle could also suffice but I have the opinion that nothing beats a caliber specific screw tip collar.  An old geezer at the range told me of another approach but it sounded so bazaar I immediately flushed it from my memory.

[smokinbuck]

Of more true importance than actually centering the screw in the ball is making sure you have a proper sized screw to get a good bite in the ball. Not much more frustrating than pulling a hole in the ball when an oversized, or undersized, screw pulls out and leaves a hole in the ball. We've had them stuck so tight the rifle had to be de breached to push the ball out.
Mark

[Jerry V Lape]

Because the dry ball may have a powder charge behind it pulling a ball with a screw is the most dangerous as of necessity you have to handle the ramrod in front of a possibly loaded gun.  And for goodness sake if you must pull the ball use a T handle or ball handled rod attached by a leash or tree crotch so you are pulling from the butt, not the front.  I have no problem at all clearing my .54 cal flintlock with a CO2 discharger.  If you really have a stubbon one a small air compressor will get the job done.  On the few occassions I assisted a percussion shooter clear the bore about I dribbled 4F powder into the nipple without removing it and successfully cleared it with less than 5 grains.  Haven't done that since getting a CO2 discharger though.  

[Molly]

Get your screw type ball pullers from Track of the Wolf.  I have 36, 40, 45, 50 and 58.  Every screw is the exact same size.

Dangerous?  Life is dangerous but it certainly pays to wait a while before attempting to pull the ball and maybe take a few other precautions as well.  But once again, IMO, it's important to learn from your mistake and not repeat it.  I have only had this happen when I allow myself to be distracted when I load.  And that mostly has been by people who want to stand and talk and watch.  And some just won't go away no matter how long you try to ignore them.  I think I'll post a sign near me when shooting that says KEEP AWAY.  DO NOT ENGAGE THIS SHOOTER.  I'M NOT HERE TO ENTERTAIN YOU!

[Molly]

You know, this is a good example of how a discussion can "drift".  The initial topic was, I think, about failure to put the charge down the barrel.  That is the only time I have ever had to pull a ball and my approach would be totally different IF there were powder behind the ball and the gun failed to fire but I have yet to experience that.  Some might ask how do you know there is no powder?  To that I have two thoughts.  One is that I see the charge still in my flask but most importantly, I can feel the absence of powder in the barrel via a small pick placed through the touch hole.  My approach is very deliberate and I try to do the same thing every time in the same sequence and my next to last "step" is to place this little pick in the touch hole to feel the powder, THEN prime the pan.  It has been easy for me to "feel" the absence of powder.  I can even detect the patch and feel the lead as well.  BTW, I shoot only flintlocks.

For cap lock shooters if the nipple can be removed to add a small quantity of powder with the intent to "blow" the ball out does that not also allow one to determine if there is a charge there or not?

Before I got into this game I was very concerned about what to do when a failure to fire occurred.  The approach according to my mentors was to wait wait wait to make sure there would not be a delayed ignition.  Then, put water down the barrel and wait some more.  Then drip a few drops in the touch hole and wait some more. And then to try to pull the ball.  Jerry V is totally correct that standing in front of a loaded gun (of any type) ain't a smart thing to do but I always thought that the term "dry ball" implied no charge down the barrel?  So maybe it means something else?

[bob in the woods]

Since I started using paper cartridges, I haven't dry balled once 

[smokinbuck]

Agree with Jerry. At our range we have a designated ball pulling area away from the other shooters and any spectators. We put a steel plate on a 4X4 post with a "U" shaped notch in it. Put the rod handle through the notch and pull from the butt end.
Mark

[Forrest]

All good advice that will work but if you want embaresment, try shooting your ramrod down range.  It can be a spiritual event.   

  AMEN  been there done it with 120 gn. of 3f in a .50. 

[Molly]

So then, what exactly does the term "dry ball" mean?  If there is no charge down there what's the reason for that much concern.  Now, if it is a failure to fire and/or there is a charge or if you don't know, there is plenty of reason for concern.  But again, what does the term dry ball mean?

[LH]

Molly,  the term refers to a patched ball loaded without any powder under it.  The concern (as per the original post) is how to get it out. 

[Molly]

LH: Thanks for the specifics.  That's basically what I thought it was.  So really there is no reason to be all that "concerned" about accidental discharge when removing the ball as, by definition, there is no powder in the barrel....right?

Ever ball I have ever pulled was necessitated because I failed to put the powder down.  It was not "suspected" it was known.  And pulling the ball was not a concern as to accidental discharge.  What WAS a concern is that I would be able to get it out.

[SCLoyalist]

Over the years I have seen instances where a "dryball" turned out to have some powder under it.   Given Cowboy's original question and the implication he was a relatively new BP  shooter, pointing out that clearing a dryball still requires adherence to all the basic gun safety rules seems appropriate.    

At most matches, the range rules require that a misfire, dryball, or other gun malfunction be brought to the attention of the range officer, and he has the responsibility for overseeing the corrective action and ensuring the safety for everybody on the line.   SCL