Author Topic: Harpers Ferry lock  (Read 7350 times)

Offline Chris in Washington

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Harpers Ferry lock
« on: March 04, 2009, 09:04:48 AM »
Could you please help me id this lock.  It's about 6 3/4" long The mainspring is broken but everything else is there.  It's dated 1835.  It's in really good shape, no pitting.  The flint is held in with a piece of sheet lead.  Any ideas about what style of gun it would have been for.  Also... the young lady the owns it is thinking about selling it... any ideas about what it might be worth?
I have the lock for a few days if better pictures are needed. 
Thank you for you time..
Chris





Chris Statz

Offline TPH

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Re: Harpers Ferry lock
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2009, 05:06:27 PM »
The lock is for a Model 1816 musket. That is a NICE one, congratulations.  :)
« Last Edit: March 04, 2009, 05:07:11 PM by TPH »
T.P. Hern

Levy

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Re: Harpers Ferry lock
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2009, 05:25:43 PM »
I agree with TPH on it being 1816 MOD. US Musket Lock.  I've cleaned about 7 that have been found in the rivers and the oceans around Florida.

James Levy

Offline JCKelly

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Re: Harpers Ferry lock
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2009, 03:04:05 AM »
It would be a kindness to History if you were to leave that lead sheet undisturbed, right where it is.
That is most likely an original "flint cap"

Offline T*O*F

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Re: Harpers Ferry lock
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2009, 04:09:12 AM »
Quote
any ideas about what it might be worth?

Mint and not pitted they go for $250 and up.
Dave Kanger

If religion is opium for the masses, the internet is a crack, pixel-huffing orgy that deafens the brain, numbs the senses and scrambles our peer list to include every anonymous loser, twisted deviant, and freak as well as people we normally wouldn't give the time of day.
-S.M. Tomlinson

Offline Chris in Washington

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Re: Harpers Ferry lock
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2009, 06:37:57 AM »
Thank you very much gentlemen.  This lock looks to be in really good shape... a few wear marks on the frizen.  All the parts have the same "V"  stamped in them.  Brass pan has what looks to be an inspectors mark.  I have no intentions of disturbing the flint, it's still sharp! It would make great sparks if it had a main spring.   What type of finish did they have originally... bright, blued, or browned?  This one has a really nice even browning, but the back side looks like it was left in the white.  All the screw slots are crisp... like it's never been apart.  All the stampings are also crisp and clean. 

Well, I'll let the young lady know what's for and about what it's worth.
Thanks again
Chris
« Last Edit: March 06, 2009, 08:17:59 AM by cdstatz »
Chris Statz

Offline Dan'l 1946

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Re: Harpers Ferry lock
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2009, 10:48:18 AM »
The lock is for a Model 1816 musket. That is a NICE one, congratulations.  :)

Just look at how fine the fit of the pan is from the inside of the lock. The Dixie catalogue carries an original mainspring for the 1842 musket for $30.00. Wonder if that would fit this lock?
« Last Edit: March 05, 2009, 10:50:55 AM by GOEX4fg »

Offline fm tim

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Re: Harpers Ferry lock
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2009, 04:39:19 PM »
I have 2 1816 model II muskets with those locks.  Many of those locks were converted to percussion so one with the original pan is relatively rare.

See :  The Southern Arsenal

by Daniel D. Hartzel and James B. Whisker
Old Bedford Village Press
Bedford, PA 15522
1996           

Offline TPH

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Re: Harpers Ferry lock
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2009, 07:24:29 PM »
Quote
any ideas about what it might be worth?

Mint and not pitted they go for $250 and up.


No to get anyone excited but I would say that price estimate is a little low, the complete, original hammer alone would go for $250 and that is not an eBay price, these locks are high, percussion locks on the loose are fairly common but not original un-messed with flint locks.

To answer the question posed by GOEX4fg, no, the M1842 spring is completely different and will not fit the M1816. For an original mainspring, Google "Lodgewood Manufacturing". Should run around $50 or $60 for an original (I've seen them higher, too) but be aware that the M1816 was never completely interchangeable so some fitting may be required.

« Last Edit: March 05, 2009, 07:28:15 PM by TPH »
T.P. Hern

Offline T*O*F

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Re: Harpers Ferry lock
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2009, 10:38:12 PM »
Not to get anyone excited but I would say that price estimate is a little low,
TP,
The estimate was purposely left open-ended.  It's all about supply and demand, and the cost of individual parts does not always reflect the cost of the whole.  Places like Lodgewood are very proud of their prices, but they have to be since they have a large overhead which includes the cost of inventory on hand, which they may have to tie up working capital for years before recovering the cost of a part.  They also travel to shoots, meets, and events so if your gun breaks, you will pay the price to get your gun shooting again.  This lock could easily fetch $750 to the "right buyer."
 
On the other hand, I have a friend who has several of these guns.  I know for a fact that he has bought several complete parts guns for $600.  He upgrades his collector pieces with parts from them which are in better condition and then re-sells the parts guns, usually at a profit.  In doing so, he enhances the quality of his collector guns while still turning over a few dollars profit.  However, this is not a "buy it now" proposition as he must find these parts guns at shows and thru contacts.  He also enjoys the dickering of the deal so the former is also part of the enjoyment of his hobby.

Price is always subject to varying conditions that exist at the time of sale, whereby the seller should always offer an item at a price that he is happy with receiving.  How many times have we seen vendors on this board, who are retiring,  selling off valuable parts in lot quantitys which are a fraction of their worth as individual items when offered for sale while they were still in business?


Dave Kanger

If religion is opium for the masses, the internet is a crack, pixel-huffing orgy that deafens the brain, numbs the senses and scrambles our peer list to include every anonymous loser, twisted deviant, and freak as well as people we normally wouldn't give the time of day.
-S.M. Tomlinson

Offline TPH

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Re: Harpers Ferry lock
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2009, 12:59:37 AM »
TOF, I agree with what you say almost 100%, that is why I initially avoided even mentioning the possible monetary value of the lock, too many variables and it is always hard to get the right price. Anyway, even though the cat is out of the bag now I still would rather not give my "opinion", because that really is all that it is.  And your friend and I would get along very well unless he and I got in each others way over a "deal"....  ;) To be honest, when I checked Lodgewood's price on the mainspring, I was quite surprised that it was as low as it is but then realized that occasionally some of the percusssioned M1816 locks are broken up for parts, especially if the lockplate is badly pitted or other parts are missing. Their prices are overall fair and their experience and willingness to help buyers/collectors/shooters is exemplary in my opinion, they are good people. 

Back when I first started dealing with early US military guns (40 years ago) there were still stocks of spare parts for the 1816 and later muskets available for sale and you could assemble a percussion version for around $25. Sadly those days are gone, but even in the late '60s a nice original flint 1816 lock would sell for over $100 in, as you say, "the right circles", and sellers wisely waited until they went to the right show before they really tried to sell them - they have never been common. As late as 1985, I let a friend beat me out on a clean, uncut  M1816 barrel, original flint condition with an excellent bore and no external pitting for $35 figuring I would pick up "the next one" when I saw it. I'm still looking, especially at that price....   :'(
T.P. Hern

Offline TPH

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Re: Harpers Ferry lock
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2009, 01:04:28 AM »
Price is always subject to varying conditions that exist at the time of sale, whereby the seller should always offer an item at a price that he is happy with receiving. 



I forgot to add above that these are words to live by, that is the key to success and happiness in our hobby.
T.P. Hern

Offline Chris in Washington

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Re: Harpers Ferry lock
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2009, 08:41:51 AM »
Thanks TOF and TPH ... I knew that there is never any fixed value on antiques.  Just wasn't for sure were to start for research for a ballpark price.   Thanks for the tips and leads.

Chris
Chris Statz