Author Topic: English Sporting Rifle Gunbroker 486311010 (Read 10370 times)

varsity07840 · « **on:** May 30, 2015, 06:59:39 PM »

This one puzzles me. It looks more like an altered fowler to me given the shape of the buttstock and the trigger guard. The spacing of the thimbles hints at a shortened barrel that was later rifled. I'm also curious
about the difference in color in the barrel itself and the breech plug. I decided against bidding on it since the seller informed me that he doesn't have a return policy, but I'd still like to know how someone else views this gun. Feedback appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Duane

E.vonAschwege · « **Reply #1 on:** May 30, 2015, 08:17:32 PM »

Here's the direct link for folks: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=486311010

I suspect at the very least it has been refinished, with modern checkering, a new nipple, and shortened hammer. May not have been a rifle to begin with, tough to say without handling it. I see concentric circles in the blurry muzzle photo, perhaps a barrel liner. I have a couple thin old damascus barrels that I'd like to line and turn into short fast twist rifle barrels.

The difference in color between the barrel and breech plug is very common. The plugs were usually color case hardened and the barrels browned, and for some reason the case hardened parts brown to a darker color than the barrel. I've had a few old English shotguns where the underside of the plug was still bright and colorful even though the exposed part was darker.
-Eric

T*O*F · « **Reply #2 on:** May 30, 2015, 08:59:02 PM »

I'd buy it in a minute, especially at that price. Who cares about the other stuff. It's all well done. The seller even says that it has fresh checkering and finish and the liner doesn't hurt a thing. Other than the fact that I don't need any more guns, I'd buy it out from under you.

varsity07840 · « **Reply #3 on:** May 30, 2015, 10:27:04 PM »

Quote from: E.vonAschwege on May 30, 2015, 08:17:32 PM

Here's the direct link for folks: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=486311010

I suspect at the very least it has been refinished, with modern checkering, a new nipple, and shortened hammer. May not have been a rifle to begin with, tough to say without handling it. I see concentric circles in the blurry muzzle photo, perhaps a barrel liner. I have a couple thin old damascus barrels that I'd like to line and turn into short fast twist rifle barrels.

The difference in color between the barrel and breech plug is very common. The plugs were usually color case hardened and the barrels browned, and for some reason the case hardened parts brown to a darker color than the barrel. I've had a few old English shotguns where the underside of the plug was still bright and colorful even though the exposed part was darker.
-Eric

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=35897.0
Here's another issue I had with it. The seller says it locks up tight. I did notice the circles at the muzzle and figured it was relined and rifled.

E.vonAschwege · « **Reply #4 on:** May 31, 2015, 02:09:10 AM »

Quote from: T*O*F on May 30, 2015, 08:59:02 PM

Who cares about the other stuff.

Folks who want something original will care about the lined barrel, modern checkering, refinish job, and that it might have always been a fowler before being turned into what it is now. As it stands it's been changed entirely from the antique it once was. Someone out there will get some pleasure out of it.

D. Buck Stopshere · « **Reply #5 on:** May 31, 2015, 03:57:15 AM »

The seller is an acquaintance of mine. His specialty is reworking original double and single barrel muzzleloading and hammer shotguns. But more for shooting than restoration. I expect he did most of the rework.

He is an avid line shooter in GA, NC, & SC, frequenting the state championships and the NMLRA Territorials. He is a top competition shooter with rifle-musket, rifle and pistol. He also builds the kind of muzzleloading pistols that cannot be discussed here as they have the grip angle and design of a Ruger MK II pistol.

Keithbatt · « **Reply #6 on:** June 03, 2015, 05:10:40 AM »

I bought it. I intend to shoot it. The lack of originality made it affordable enough for me.

Looking forward to receiving it.

Keith

Feltwad · « **Reply #7 on:** June 03, 2015, 10:31:01 AM »

A single barrel percussion stock fitted with a modern rifle barrel . not an English sporting rifle but will make a shooter with a bit of a kick on the shoulder.
Feltwad

Old Ford2 · « **Reply #8 on:** June 03, 2015, 01:52:33 PM »

Keithbatt, you bought a fine looking gun.
My compliments!
Fred

Keithbatt · « **Reply #9 on:** June 03, 2015, 06:50:04 PM »

Feltwad: I've read a lot of the archives and and zeroed in on some of your posts because of your knowledge of English rifles, so I'd appreciate further comments or guidance.

I'm interested in learning more about English percussion rifles. I understand that this rifle is not original. But I don't know the finer points of what architecturally is not consistent with an original sporting rifle. Can you comment with specifics?

Can you or anyone else recommend literature I should study? It's difficult on my own! My experience buying books has been that it's hard to zero in on what I am interested in: muzzleloading single barrel sporting guns, specifically big bore guns for African hunting. Most of the literature I see focuses on double guns, later cartridge guns, etc.

Some of the best photos I have found are in the auction catalogs from Keith Neal's collection and Neal and Back's Great British Gunmakers.

Thanks for your comments.

Keith.

eddillon · « **Reply #10 on:** June 03, 2015, 08:24:43 PM »

Congrats, Keith. Afew years ago I bought a single barrel gun from TOW at a bargain price of $365 or so. Stock was totally a wreck as was the bore. I knew that it would never be a shooter in that condition. I contemplated scrapping it for parts but then changed my mind. I restocked it with a nice circassian blank and fitted the beautiful Damascus barrel with a .577 rifled liner. You are welcome to come out to Twin Sisters and shoot it sometime. Probably the only 6.5 lb. English sporting rifle around.

Before

After

Keithbatt · « **Reply #11 on:** June 03, 2015, 08:47:47 PM »

Ed,

That's a beauty. Perhaps when I receive this rifle we can get together and shoot.

Thanks,

Keith

Dr. Tim-Boone · « **Reply #12 on:** June 04, 2015, 04:35:59 AM »

Quote from: aka california eddillon on June 03, 2015, 08:24:43 PM

Congrats, Keith. Afew years ago I bought a single barrel gun from TOW at a bargain price of $365 or so. Stock was totally a wreck as was the bore. I knew that it would never be a shooter in that condition. I contemplated scrapping it for parts but then changed my mind. I restocked it with a nice circassian blank and fitted the beautiful Damascus barrel with a .577 rifled liner. You are welcome to come out to Twin Sisters and shoot it sometime. Probably the only 6.5 lb. English sporting rifle around.

Before

After

Ed, Here is .58 Cal Rifle with 42 in barrel 5.5 lbs !!! Kicks!

eddillon · « **Reply #13 on:** June 04, 2015, 09:09:51 AM »

Aw shucks! No longer light weight king of the hill. I'll bet mine kicks more.

varsity07840 · « **Reply #14 on:** June 04, 2015, 06:07:10 PM »

Westley Richards 16 bore. Around 7lbs. Really thumps you off the bench.

Duane

Keithbatt · « **Reply #15 on:** June 13, 2015, 08:21:23 AM »

Received it via USPS 2 day priority mail.

Stock broken nearly completely in half.

Very disappointed. Never dealt with filing claims, etc. I have been rereading old posts regarding this issue.

The seller did an acceptable job with the packing. I could tell the package took a hard hit on the end.

Keith

eddillon · « **Reply #16 on:** June 13, 2015, 08:52:41 AM »

Sorry to hear about the delivery dilemma, Keith. There are gorillas out there. You probably have a long fight ahead of you. Package deliverers have no concept of what they are delivering. Sad

Feltwad · « **Reply #17 on:** June 13, 2015, 09:33:00 AM »

I take it the rifle was sent full length it is better on this type of gun if the barrels were dismantled , with the barrels longer than the stock they would have taken most of the hard treatment better than the stock.It is very dishearting to receive a parcel in this condition which is just has bad here in the UK.
Feltwad

Keithbatt · « **Reply #18 on:** June 13, 2015, 07:10:22 PM »

Yes it was sent assembled.

Dr. Tim-Boone · « **Reply #19 on:** June 13, 2015, 11:13:11 PM »

Sorry to hear that Keithbatt. Keep after the USPS.. Also it is possible to repair it or have it repaired so you would hardly or maybe not at all notice the break.

Happened to my Peter Berry and you would be hard pressed to find the break.

Keithbatt · « **Reply #20 on:** June 13, 2015, 11:31:44 PM »

Thanks. I have already discussed a repair with a friend who has done similar repairs in the past and who is an accomplished builder. He seemed confident that he would have no problems fixing it.

I'll just try to work with usps and hold off on the repair until the claim is done.

Keith

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Author Topic: English Sporting Rifle Gunbroker 486311010 (Read 10370 times)

eddillon

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eddillon