E. Remington Percussion Lock Rifle

[red owl]

I was recently at Ilion, NY and stopped at the Remington Arms Museum. It is well worth the stop.  In any event one of the first exhibits was a percussion muzzle loading rifle by E. Remington. It had a plain round drum. It was a half stock and the nose cap contained a hole for the ramrod. It looks like the pipes are attached to the bottom of the barrel- not much of an under rib.
   I thought this type of nose cap with a ramrod hole was seen on some Tryon rifles in the late 1870's but not very popular. A lot of cheaper replicas use this style as it is cheaper to install than a nose cap which requires a separate entry thimble.
   The type of nose cap with the hole for the ramrod- eliminating the need of an entrance thimble. Is there a particular term for that style? I've been calling it a monolithic since both nose cap and entry pipe are incorporated into one big piece of metal but I don't really know the proper term- if there is one.

[JV Puleo]

The Remington company has the rather disturbing habit of making exaggerated claims regarding its early days. The slogan "America's oldest gunmaker" is one of them. It is very unlikely that a civilian percussion muzzleloader (much less a flint lock) was a product of that company. Their first complete longarms were Jenks breechloading carbines made for the Navy Department. Prior to the Civil War they were one of the largest suppliers of gun barrels... both steel and iron (their claim to have introduced the steel barrel is also erroneous). So, the rifle you saw could have been made by almost anyone that used Remington parts.

The late Charles Schiff wrote a book titled "Remington's First Revolver" about the early Beals designed pocket pistols. In that book is a full page broadside published by the company in 1862 listing their products. Its quite informative and gives a realistic picture of what they actually offered.

Arguably, both Colt and Winchester are older gunmaking companies.

[galamb]

Yes, to illustrate the point being made above, here is a pic of a Sam Hawken pistol grip rifle built in St. Louis (probably) in the early 1850's.

Upon close inspection "Remington" is clearly stamped on the side flat of the barrel with the S. Hawken St. Louis stamp on the top flat.

The rifle is in possession of the Buffalo Bill museum.

[smokinbuck]

I also have a number of documented Ohio rifles from the same period (1840-1860) that have Remington barrels on them.
Mark

[Topknot]

Someone correct me if im wrong, but I read somewhere years ago that the hawken brothers had bought rifle barrel blanks from remington at one time.

                                          topknot

[Bob Roller]

Yes, to illustrate the point being made above, here is a pic of a Sam Hawken pistol grip rifle built in St. Louis (probably) in the early 1850's.

Upon close inspection "Remington" is clearly stamped on the side flat of the barrel with the S. Hawken St. Louis stamp on the top flat.

The rifle is in possession of the Buffalo Bill museum.

Remington made barrels available to anyone who wanted them. The standard blank was furnished with a pilot hole bore to be enlarged as needed. I had a fine muzzle loader in 1963 that had a Remington barrel that was marked L.Devendorf,Cedarville,Iowa.

Bob Roller

[JCKelly]

Dorr N. Wiltse, Jr. & I wrote the book Michigan Gunsmiths from the 18th through the early 20th Centuries. We have seen many Michigan rifles with barrels stamed REMINGTON, or some variation there of. I believe they also supplied, if not made, percussion locks. We saw one brass capbox with "REMINGTON" stamped inside the lid. Whether Remington made brass mounts or just supplied them to gunmakers I do not know.

[JV Puleo]

I very much doubt that they made locks for the civilian trade. As it was, they complained bitterly about the cost of making the locks for the 1816 Muskets they converted to the Maynard system. In effect, they had bid too low and complained that the job wasn't profitable. Their 1860 advertising broadside makes no mention of locks but they could have been offering them. If so, they were probably made for them in England. That they had  contacts with the British trade is reasonably certain as that is where the purchased the steel for their barrels.

[JCKelly]

I have one of those Remington -Maynard locks on a converted Model 1840.

Wonderful detailed machine, that lock. Not surprising they figured their bid was too low

And yes, I too suspect that their Remington locks came from Birmingham.

[CW Smokepole]

Although I have six or seven NY Rifles with Remington-marked barrels, only two have Remington-marked locks.
1 Louis Basinait Albion NY- Heavy Target rifle with bar-action Remington lock. Marked for "N. Raven"- anyone heard of him?
2. Andrew Buckham Delhi NY- Heavy Target rifle with back-action Remington-marked lock.

[Steve Collward]

CW:
  Regarding you Basinait/Albion rifle, is the lock marked "Remington"?  Where is the "N.Raven" mark located? 
Is there any chance it might be "New Haven"?

[CW Smokepole]

Sorry....I thought I stated clearly that the two rifles had Remington locks- can supply photos if they would help.
"NR1066" is stamped on the bottom flat, and "N. Raven" appears to be inked in the barrel channel walnut.
Beauty rifle indeed...I found it up in Calgary Alberta. It sits right beside my Isaac Joslyn from Batavia NY-Louis B. served his apprenticeship under Isaac, according to Swinney-Rowe.