Author Topic: Does anyone test fire completed builds??  (Read 11341 times)

PKLeRay

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Does anyone test fire completed builds??
« on: June 03, 2015, 12:47:29 PM »
Curious if anyone test fires their builds before selling...

Offline James Wilson Everett

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Re: Does anyone test fire completed builds??
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2015, 02:02:28 PM »
Guys,

I always test or proof my barrels before building the gun.  So, my answer is yes.  But, I often make my own barrels.  Also, I always test fire the guns to set or adjust the sights.  Besides the technical part of gun building - it is a lot of fun to shoot an new one!

Jim

Offline WadePatton

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« Last Edit: June 03, 2015, 02:12:44 PM by WadePatton »
Hold to the Wind

kaintuck

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Re: Does anyone test fire completed builds??
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2015, 02:13:47 PM »
That's what brother in laws are for at picnics in Tennessee!......."hold my beer, I'll shoot that thing"......

Marc

Offline moleeyes36

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Re: Does anyone test fire completed builds??
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2015, 02:56:21 PM »
That's what brother in laws are for at picnics in Tennessee!......."hold my beer, I'll shoot that thing"......

Marc

That certainly could make for a "lively" family get together  ;)

Mole Eyes
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Offline Nate McKenzie

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Re: Does anyone test fire completed builds??
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2015, 04:34:00 PM »
I test fire and sight in at 25yds.

Offline Stophel

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Re: Does anyone test fire completed builds??
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2015, 05:30:01 PM »
Test fire, yes. Proof, no.
When a reenactor says "They didn't write everything down"   what that really means is: "I'm too lazy to look for documentation."

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Does anyone test fire completed builds??
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2015, 12:24:42 AM »
Once in a great while. Only out of curiosity if there is something unusual about a gun that makes me want to try it out. Got's no time to shoot them all or the inclination. $#*!, I don't get to shoot MY OWN GUNS enough with out adding shooting every one else's gun!
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Stophel

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Re: Does anyone test fire completed builds??
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2015, 01:33:58 AM »
Wait, you have some of your own guns??? 

 :D

Only thing I have (together and functioning) of my own is about fifteen years old... and I'm a much better gunsmith now!

The carpenter's house is the one with the leaky roof.
When a reenactor says "They didn't write everything down"   what that really means is: "I'm too lazy to look for documentation."

Offline Daryl

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Re: Does anyone test fire completed builds??
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2015, 02:38:48 AM »
Taylor test fires every rifle- to the point of sighting it in, even.  Gotta shoot 'em, if you're going to build them, we figure. I"m lucky enough to usually be available to help.
Daryl

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Offline HIB

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Re: Does anyone test fire completed builds??
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2015, 06:13:30 AM »
Gentlemen,  I know for a fact the MarK Wheland test fires the guns he has made for me and provides windage and elevation observartions with the sale info.

I also know that W.Va.barrel/gunmaker Ed Ryle does the same including target, distance, powder measure and ball and patch size.

I can't imagine a comtemporary builder not testing his build before sending it off to the customer. Think of the consequences as well as future order potential and reputation.

5 shot target, powder measure, patch and ball size and distance should be a major concern of the buyer. Unless of course "stupid is, what stupid does" !!
« Last Edit: June 04, 2015, 04:43:17 PM by HIB »

Offline rsells

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Re: Does anyone test fire completed builds??
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2015, 07:34:06 AM »
I test fire each rifle, adjust the impact on target left and right, and adjust the elevation to be approximately 1 inch low at 25 yards.
                                                                                              Roger Sells

Offline Keb

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Re: Does anyone test fire completed builds??
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2015, 02:51:32 PM »
I use to sight them in giving the best ball size, patch, lube, powder amount, etc. I sold a trade gun to a fella a while back. It was a dead on flat straight shooter. I told the guy how to load it and how to aim it. Next time I saw the guy I asked him how it shot. He said he couldn't hit the inside of a barn with it while standing in it. I asked him about the load he was using. He said he had to back down on powder cause it kicked too much, changed to a smaller ball and a different lube cause it was hard to load and he also soldered on a different front sight cause he didn't like that little short one that was on it. He told folks I made crappy guns that didn't shoot good. Now I only function test to be sure they go bang like they are suppose to. I found most people don't really care to take my advice so the new owners can now work up their own best load.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2015, 02:53:05 PM by Keb »

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Does anyone test fire completed builds??
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2015, 02:59:26 PM »
Wait, you have some of your own guns??? 

 :D

Only thing I have (together and functioning) of my own is about fifteen years old... and I'm a much better gunsmith now!

The carpenter's house is the one with the leaky roof.
All I have is modern guns, been that way for 15 years. Somebody always comes along with a wad of Benjamins that I admire more than my gun and off it goes. I usually build a gun to deer hunt with every year then sell it after the season is over.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Does anyone test fire completed builds??
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2015, 03:24:02 PM »
I'll tell you all a story.......I had a customer who was a mighty moose hunter. His requirements: Flintlock, short barrel so he could crawl on his belly through the brush. .62 rifled bore and sighted in for 200 yards with a 140 grain 3fff powder load....there were no options about this load. Evidently the closest you can get is 200 yards to a mighty moose in MI. ::)
  I finally negotiated him from a 24" barrel to a 38" barrel. Anyway, got the gun done and drove all the way out to the range to proceed to beat myself to death sighting this gun in . It was !@*%&@ near dead on at 75 yards right from the start I mainly had to work up a load. It took me 2 days before I found the accurate load. .600 ball, .018 pillow tick, wonder lube and 95 grains of 3fff. It wouldn't shoot with less powder or more, 95 was the sweet spot. It actually shot surprisingly well. So, I lost 2 days work sighting this gun in. ::)
I packed up the gun, a target, patch material and a dozen ball with the proper load written on the target. I get a call from the outraged  mighty moose hunter  not long after. He claimed the gun was an inaccurate piece of junk with a slow lock (this was his first flint gun) and wouldn't shoot the 140 grain load he required. :-X He wanted his money back of course. I told him to send it to TOTW to sell it. It sold in 2 days.   I told Mark Silver this story once and it turns out Mark had turned down the order before I ended up with it...smart guy that Mr. Silver.
 So, what did I learn here? ??? Don't waist 2 days pay working up a load that the customer won't use  anyway, and to turn down orders that aren't something I want to build. The longer I do this the more work I turn away. ;)
 So, I make sure the gun sparks and functions and then box it up and away it goes. I personally don't want anyone working up a load for MY personal guns because I probably won't use the load anyway, and, I want a new unfired gun if that's what I'm paying for.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2015, 03:27:02 PM by Mike Brooks »
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Pete G.

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Re: Does anyone test fire completed builds??
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2015, 03:49:14 PM »
Depends on the gun and who it is for. Generally I am not in the business of turning new guns into used ones.

Offline t.caster

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Re: Does anyone test fire completed builds??
« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2015, 08:02:38 PM »
I test fire them to make sure everything is functioning properly and to my satisfaction.
BTW: The Albrecht/Lancaster rifle I have list for sale here, has now been test fired this week and passed with flying colors.
Tom C.

ddoyle

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Re: Does anyone test fire completed builds??
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2015, 08:47:15 PM »
How good of a gunsmith do you have to be to trust your work so completely as to not fire for accuracy/pattern?  Not disparaging anyone but until I read this thread I honestly assumed that any fine builder would be loathe to sign a gun and send it into the world with out knowing for certain it (and all the components) measured up to their standards.  

 No proofing, no test firing LOL when except in 20/21st century America has this ever been acceptable trade practice. Racing to the bottom IMHO.

« Last Edit: June 05, 2015, 08:55:06 PM by ddoyle »

Offline bob in the woods

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Re: Does anyone test fire completed builds??
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2015, 08:53:26 PM »
I leave the front sight a bit high, make sure the mechanics work fine, and call it done.  I always open up the touch hole to 5/64ths.    It's a brand new gun and the owner gets to be the first one to shoot it.  I had a fellow come back to me some years ago [ 18 or so ] and complain that the rifle he purchased wouldn't shoot worth a darn.  I had shown him targets I'd shot with it, prior to his purchase.  We went out back of the shop, and I put 3 into the bull at 50 yards.  Didn't go well. He was just a poor shot, and an ungrateful customer to boot.  I do this as a hobby. There are enough other things in life that grind my guts, so I leave the sighting in alone   :)

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Does anyone test fire completed builds??
« Reply #19 on: June 06, 2015, 12:03:09 AM »
Quote
How good of a gunsmith do you have to be to trust your work so completely as to not fire for accuracy/pattern?
After nearly 340 guns under my belt I have some vague idea if it will work or not. Honestly, with the parts available today, if you put together properly a  gun is going to work. If it sparks at the bench it will more than likely spark on the shooting range. I figure it's not my job to sight in your rifle for you.
 How many of you have blown up a barrel from any of the leading barrel makers lately while test firing? Use high quality parts and good building practices and you're not going to have a problem.
 Heck, the last  modern gun I bought didn't come with sights neither did they sight it in for me, and they didn't send any info as to what loads it liked...had to figure all that out for myself........outrageous  ::)
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Cory Joe Stewart

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Re: Does anyone test fire completed builds??
« Reply #20 on: June 06, 2015, 01:18:05 AM »
I test fire and get it close to dialed in.  But I do not take the time to completely zero one in.  First off I am not that good of a shot.  Secondly, everyone is so different.  So what works with my 6 ft scrawny frame may not work for a husky fella.  Every gun I have built so far has been for a husky fella.

Coryjoe

Birddog6

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Re: Does anyone test fire completed builds??
« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2015, 01:50:24 AM »
Absolutely.  I test shoot  Every  rifle. Three dif. Times I have had defective bores.  First time the rifle was completely done & I had to put a new barrel in it.  From then on, as soon as the barrel, lock & trigger is in, I glue on the sights & bench rest test shoot it.
When I have the rifle completed I test it again at 25 & 50 yds.  When it leaves me I know for fact all is working correctly.

Keith Lisle
« Last Edit: June 06, 2015, 01:51:13 AM by D. Keith Lisle »

ddoyle

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Re: Does anyone test fire completed builds??
« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2015, 03:20:52 AM »
Mike, I do not think anyone was asking if you liked to sight rifles in. That is a different service and a customer should be charged for it accordingly. The question was regarding test firing. I took that to mean that the builder would fire (or have an apprentice do so) a few rounds. These rounds would confirm that all the educated guesses the builder put into the build were accurate. Obviously an experienced gunsmith has a general idea of what the barrel is going to like in terms of loading so confirming that a couple balls can be placed relatively close to one another on a large sheet of paper or that a shot pattern looks like it can be  worked with  is much different then doing all the load/sight work.

On the modern side comparison. I only ever bought one new rifle. It was half the price of a custom muzzle loader and like yours came sans sights but with a test target, oh and the barrel was proofed. (anal europeans eh LOL).  In the modern gunsmith shops I have hung about or worked in choke work always got test fired, chamber work as well.

None of this is an attack or disparagement of builders. If customers would rather save a couple hundred bucks by shaving corners in centuries old process and traditions who are you to argue ;) Myself I cannot imagine paying 2 grand for a jug choked Fowler that had never been patterned or a rifle that no one had ever before run a ball down to feel that the bore was a consistent diameter.

If the builder blindly  trusts the barrel maker and the barrel maker blindly trusts the steel retailer and the  retailer blindly trusts wholesaler and the wholesaler blindly trusts the steels mill and the steel mill blindly trusts.............. I am just wondering why it is the guy who is paying all the above that is the one who gets to do the first round of Quality Assurance LOL.  
« Last Edit: June 06, 2015, 03:33:52 AM by ddoyle »

Offline JCKelly

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Re: Does anyone test fire completed builds??
« Reply #23 on: June 06, 2015, 03:48:23 AM »
When I built rifles back in the '70's I always sighted them in.
(this can be fun on a public range, when you outshoot the scoped whatever with your flintlock)

As we are all human, I think it is a real good idea to find out if this thing actually works. Once in a while one makes inconvenient errors, best the maker find out than the customer.

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Does anyone test fire completed builds??
« Reply #24 on: June 06, 2015, 03:18:56 PM »
Yeah, I'll just send my lazy apprentice out to do this kind of stuff. ::)

Does anyone realize how many different calibers and guages of guns I build? I have built rifles from .25 to .69. Fowling guns from 32 guage to 4 bore. Am I supposed to stock all of these ball sizes? Am I supposed to stock all those card and wad sizes?
 I don't even shoot muzzleloaders any more. I can't keep one, haven't owned one for more than 2 months in the past 16 years. I just don't have a great variety of muzzleloading shooting supplies laying around.
 If I am going to begin to start a sight in and accuracy service it's going to add $200-$400 to the cost of the gun, just because of the hours involved on the shooting range....I ain't doing the work of sighting in someone else's  gun for free.
 Shot gun patterning with or with out jug takes me several days to get a pattern I like. Does anyone want to pay me for this time? They wouldn't like my loads anyway, I load hotter and heavier with a jug than most people would care to shoot. So, I'd be wasting my time patterning because the new owner wouldn't use the load anyway...what's the point? :-\
 I do this stuff for real, this is not a hobby. When I'm not standing at the bench I'm not making money to pay the bills. Time is money. If I were doing this for fun I might be more inclined to spend a day sighting in somebody else's gun for them.
 Maybe I ought to just go ahead and raise my prices $400 and just start providing the sight in and pattern service. Imagine, getting paid $35 an hour just to @$#% around shooting for the day......sounding better all the time. 8)
 Personally I would prefer to work up a load and sight in my own rifle if I had somebody make one for me. Obviously I'm in the minority.....
 
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?