Author Topic: Heinz 57 rifle  (Read 11781 times)

Offline T*O*F

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Heinz 57 rifle
« on: June 03, 2015, 07:46:25 PM »
Probably 5 or 6 years ago, I became enamored of building a .38 cal rifle to shoot long range.  I finally ran across a fast twist barrel at a bargain price.  I had a bunch of  extra parts from other builds which I could use.  A friend had some slabs of crotch walnut, cut with a chainsaw about 20 years ago, that he wanted out of his attic.  After working a piece down, I found it with a large knot and a bunch of stress cracks.

I originally had a different buttplate on it, but somewhere along the way decided since this would be my own gun I would fool around with some different stuff.  I had M. Tornichio forge me a buttplate, which I made a skeleton plate from.  I also made a skeleton gripcap and a toe box, but ran out of time and didn't use them.  I will put them on later.

An old L&R bar lock kit from the 70's completed the hardware.  I built the lock and changed to a different hammer because the one that came with it was too short.  I took the sights as part payment for some other work I did.















« Last Edit: June 03, 2015, 07:52:51 PM by T*O*F »
Dave Kanger

If religion is opium for the masses, the internet is a crack, pixel-huffing orgy that deafens the brain, numbs the senses and scrambles our peer list to include every anonymous loser, twisted deviant, and freak as well as people we normally wouldn't give the time of day.
-S.M. Tomlinson

Offline T*O*F

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Re: Heinz 57 rifle
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2015, 07:49:47 PM »
As I said before, I ran out of time and several things need to be completed on this gun.  However, it's shootable and I will be shooting it at Friendship next week and will finish it up and re-do some things after I get home.




























Dave Kanger

If religion is opium for the masses, the internet is a crack, pixel-huffing orgy that deafens the brain, numbs the senses and scrambles our peer list to include every anonymous loser, twisted deviant, and freak as well as people we normally wouldn't give the time of day.
-S.M. Tomlinson

Offline RobertS

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Re: Heinz 57 rifle
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2015, 07:50:35 PM »
Love the idea of it, and can't wait to see how it turns out.

Offline RobertS

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Re: Heinz 57 rifle
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2015, 07:51:44 PM »
I like the finished product even better than I expected.  It's gorgeous!

eddillon

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Re: Heinz 57 rifle
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2015, 08:44:52 PM »
John Rigby would be proud of your excellent work.

Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

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Re: Heinz 57 rifle
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2015, 09:02:21 PM »
Did you use the Gel finish on it??
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Offline bob in the woods

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Re: Heinz 57 rifle
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2015, 09:17:23 PM »
I'm very impressed with that build.  I really enjoy shooting the longer ranges with muzzleloaders.  Mine is a .45   one in 18 twist.  I shoot PP bullets.  I'd really appreciate some details re what you'll be shooting..bullets / powder charges etc
I made a short false muzzle to centre the PP bullets to the bore when loading. Made life a lot easier.
Do they shoot at 200 yards or is it out to 600 yards at Friendship ?

Offline T*O*F

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Re: Heinz 57 rifle
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2015, 09:52:22 PM »
Quote
Did you use the Gel finish on it??
Yes

Quote
Do they shoot at 200 yards or is it out to 600 yards at Friendship ?
500 yards

Quote
I'd really appreciate some details re what you'll be shooting..bullets / powder charges etc
Bullet is a 330 gr Postell style.  Having trouble sizing them down.  My diemaker let me down and the one I have is about .003 to small.  They just drop down the bore.  Don't know about powder yet.....trying Schuetzen 2F and Swiss 3F.  Have to get out this weekend and see if it will hit anything at all with reasonable accuracy.
Dave Kanger

If religion is opium for the masses, the internet is a crack, pixel-huffing orgy that deafens the brain, numbs the senses and scrambles our peer list to include every anonymous loser, twisted deviant, and freak as well as people we normally wouldn't give the time of day.
-S.M. Tomlinson

Offline ScottH

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Re: Heinz 57 rifle
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2015, 10:06:18 PM »
"Bullet is a 330 gr Postell style.  Having trouble sizing them down.  My diemaker let me down and the one I have is about .003 to small.  They just drop down the bore.  Don't know about powder yet.....trying Schuetzen 2F and Swiss 3F.  Have to get out this weekend and see if it will hit anything at all with reasonable accuracy."


Perhaps paper patched bullets??

Offline bob in the woods

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Re: Heinz 57 rifle
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2015, 10:29:28 PM »
In a clean bore, mine go down easy…just with the weight of the ram rod.  They bump up when fired.  [ 1 /25 mix lead/tin ]

Offline FDR

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Re: Heinz 57 rifle
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2015, 11:21:09 PM »
Beautiful gun!  Would love to hear some detail on how you handled that hole in the butstock.

Offline T*O*F

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Re: Heinz 57 rifle
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2015, 11:31:51 PM »
Quote
Would love to hear some detail on how you handled that hole in the butstock.
While it was still in the rough blank stage I covered the cracks with masking tape and injected black acraglas into them from the butt end.  After it set up a bit, I filled the knothole with it.  Then worked the stock down as one normally does.
Dave Kanger

If religion is opium for the masses, the internet is a crack, pixel-huffing orgy that deafens the brain, numbs the senses and scrambles our peer list to include every anonymous loser, twisted deviant, and freak as well as people we normally wouldn't give the time of day.
-S.M. Tomlinson

Offline FDR

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Re: Heinz 57 rifle
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2015, 11:40:47 PM »
Thanks. I will have to try that. Already have the Acraglass and coloring agent.  I have used CA with effect on cracks but have never filled anything that large.  New tool for the tool box!

Fred

Offline gunmaker

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Re: Heinz 57 rifle
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2015, 03:10:34 AM »
I like that style a rifle.....let's see some targets soon...Tom

Offline Daryl

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Re: Heinz 57 rifle
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2015, 12:27:26 AM »
I like it took, Tom.  Looks mighty fine indeed.
What is the bore, Dave?
With soft bullets, you can bump them up .003" in a normal size die.
When I was shooting slugs, many years ago, I had a chunk of barrel I made into a form die, thus the almost groove diameter bullets were pushed through the die base first, and came out with lands and grooves making a mechanically fit bullet.
Lee will make you a die for your bench loading press, with a 7/8" X 14 thread, along with a ram that fits like a shell holder. the bullets are hand lubed, then pushed through the die from below- base or nose first - your choice. They come out the top of the die, so it's a one way trip.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline T*O*F

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Re: Heinz 57 rifle
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2015, 01:23:03 AM »
First off, this is about the gun and not shooting it.  Perhaps one of the "experienced" moderators will split this topic and move those posts to the shooting forum.

Targets are metal, so no posting of targets.

I assumed this was a Green Mountain barrel.  They tell me all their .38's are bored at .368, but this one is larger.  It may not be a GM.  My bullets are .378.  My machinist was in a tizzy getting ready for a show and made me a sizer in .378 so it was worthless.  He'll make me another when I get back.

I borrowed dies in .366, .368, and .371.  The bullets won't go thru the larger one unless I reduce the 2 lower driving bands on the belt sander.  If I don't get it right, they jam in the die and I have to pound them out.  Most of them wipe out the bottom two grease grooves if they do make it thru.  Those bullets just drop to the bottom of the barrel with no resistance.  The bore is around .374. 
Dave Kanger

If religion is opium for the masses, the internet is a crack, pixel-huffing orgy that deafens the brain, numbs the senses and scrambles our peer list to include every anonymous loser, twisted deviant, and freak as well as people we normally wouldn't give the time of day.
-S.M. Tomlinson

Offline tim crowe

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Re: Heinz 57 rifle
« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2015, 05:25:42 AM »
TOF
The gun is inspiring thanks for posting. I have wanted to build one for a while. What is the length of the stock butt to tip of the forearm?

Offline T*O*F

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Re: Heinz 57 rifle
« Reply #17 on: June 06, 2015, 08:20:26 PM »
Quote
I have wanted to build one for a while. What is the length of the stock butt to tip of the forearm?
Tim,
It's 28" but that's not a critical number.  It's just what I  chose.

My advice to you would be to buy Pecatonica's Rigby kit.  That way you get a matched set of components.  Also, as far as I know, they are the only ones who might have a fast twist barrel in stock.  If you have your own wood, they will profile it for you and there is ample wood to remove to suit several profiles, all of which are much slimmer than their supplied stock.
Dave Kanger

If religion is opium for the masses, the internet is a crack, pixel-huffing orgy that deafens the brain, numbs the senses and scrambles our peer list to include every anonymous loser, twisted deviant, and freak as well as people we normally wouldn't give the time of day.
-S.M. Tomlinson

Offline tim crowe

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Re: Heinz 57 rifle
« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2015, 02:45:02 AM »
TOF
38 cal for lighter recoil? Or you had shot one and like it?
Flashing that rifle around is like advertising a oasis in the desert.
Tim

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Heinz 57 rifle
« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2015, 03:17:41 AM »
TOF
38 cal for lighter recoil? Or you had shot one and like it?
Flashing that rifle around is like advertising a oasis in the desert.
Tim

I built one in .375 a few years ago and it shot well and certainly hadn't the recoil of a similar 451 with a 500+grain bullet and 90 or more grains of powder. I want no more of them to shoot no matter how finely crafted and regardless of maker.I have reports from New Zealanders that use their 38's out to 800 yards with good results.

Bob Roller

Offline tim crowe

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Re: Heinz 57 rifle
« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2015, 03:54:31 AM »
Thanks for the info Bob. I am in my wood pile to see what suitable maple or walnut 30" long. I assume the stock is similar to  a Rigby sporting rifle except having a pistol grip? Correct me if I am wrong I have a thick hide. I would have to build one in 40 cal for deer Wisconsin min for deer. Does track carry basic drawings or am I on my own?

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Heinz 57 rifle
« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2015, 04:24:54 PM »
Thanks for the info Bob. I am in my wood pile to see what suitable maple or walnut 30" long. I assume the stock is similar to  a Rigby sporting rifle except having a pistol grip? Correct me if I am wrong I have a thick hide. I would have to build one in 40 cal for deer Wisconsin min for deer. Does track carry basic drawings or am I on my own?
Tim,
Contact Rod England and see if he can still furnish full scale drawings,detailed of the Alex Henry long range muzzle loader once offered by the late Don Brown. He can also furnish correct parts for these. A lot of these guns were pretty much alike no matter whose name is on them.
Rod's contact info is <rtengland864@aol.com> or 1-864-590-6718. He may be able to also furnish proper kits to make these rifles in both pistol grip and straight grip as Don Brown once did.

Bob Roller

Offline tim crowe

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Re: Heinz 57 rifle
« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2015, 05:53:40 PM »
Thanks Bob I will keep you posted. I went back and pulled up old posts by you and TOF and gleaned a good bit of info on this style rifle. Thanks again for both of you guys during your knowledge.

Offline T*O*F

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Re: Heinz 57 rifle
« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2015, 07:19:00 PM »
Tim,
I don't know how experienced as a builder you are, but here's some more info.

1.  If you use Rod England's parts, you must use them all and they are expensive.  That means you must use his barrel as well, and it only comes in .45 caliber.  There are no other barrels currently being produced that will work.  I looked for years to find an alternative after Badger quit producing that profile for Don Brown.  Seems like overkill to build an expensive match rifle to hunt deer with.

2.  With Pecatonica's components, you can use any one inch, octagon barrel in whatever caliber and twist you desire.  Smaller calibers result in less recoil.  A .45 cal shooting a 530 gr. bullet kicks as hard as a 45-90.  Pecatonica's stock profile is in the pistol grip style.  If you want a straight grip, go with Track's sporting rifle components (if they have them in stock).

3.  With a 1" barrel, you must use L&R's bar lock and drip bar.  The Davis Alex Henry lock is designed for barrels larger than 1".  Their drip bar won't fit and the lock is taller than the L&R in profile.  While this doesn't seem like a problem, the reveal around the lock panel after the lock is installed is determined by a break point located on the standing breech.  The gun will look funky with the Davis lock.

4.  Whichever system you choose,  There are two precise holes that must be drilled.  One goes thru the forward part of the trigger plate and into the center of the standing breech.  The other goes thru the tang and must hit the center of the 5/16ths post at the top of the trigger plate.  No room for error.  It isn't a job for a hand-held drill.  Also, with Rod England's components, you will need a set of 60 degree countersinks to fit all the screws.

4.  You will have to have a special mold cut for your bullets and probably a sizing die as well.  There are no commercial molds being made for muzzleloading bullets.  The bullets are generally .001 less than bore size to give a slip fit requiring the weight of the ramrod only to seat it.  Any smaller and the bullet can move forward while you are carrying it in the woods resulting in a dangerous condition.  Even then, you must remain aware.  Match rifles aren't carried around the woods, so this is less of a problem with them.

I have a fast twist, .40 caliber, one inch barrel available.  It's 35" long.  If you are interested in it, we can talk about it more after I return from Friendship.

Dave Kanger

If religion is opium for the masses, the internet is a crack, pixel-huffing orgy that deafens the brain, numbs the senses and scrambles our peer list to include every anonymous loser, twisted deviant, and freak as well as people we normally wouldn't give the time of day.
-S.M. Tomlinson

Offline tim crowe

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Re: Heinz 57 rifle
« Reply #24 on: June 07, 2015, 08:17:42 PM »
TOF
 Message me when you get back about the barrel.   I believe Rods parts will not work if they are expensive not saying they aren't worth it. I did take a bunch of parts on trade, LR lock, and patent breech not sure whose it is , but i will be talking to you.Thanks for all your help.