Author Topic: Seasoning  (Read 15016 times)

benjaminh123

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Seasoning
« on: June 28, 2015, 02:27:26 AM »
What does “seasoning” a barrel involve? May be a dumb question, but I'm a newbie, just trying to sort out some info.

Benjamin

Offline bob in the woods

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Re: Seasoning
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2015, 02:43:42 AM »
Seasoning a barrel, in my view , basically involves not cleaning it   :o   I don't believe that my barrel behaves the same as my frying pan  :)     Seriously…why would you want to ? 

benjaminh123

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Re: Seasoning
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2015, 03:18:43 AM »
Okay, thats what I thought; just wanted to make sure.

Offline alyce-james

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Re: Seasoning
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2015, 04:14:38 AM »
benjaminh123; Sir, good evening. The world I live in there are no dumb questions. The people on this site, all, will be helpful and answer honest questions. Welcome and lots to learn here and interesting projects shared. Have a great wee end. AJ.
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benjaminh123

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Re: Seasoning
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2015, 05:37:59 AM »
Thanks AJ, I've really enjoyed my time here; lots of info in previous posts as well as friendly people to post on my own problems/questions.

Offline BJH

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Re: Seasoning
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2015, 03:32:07 PM »
Seasoning barrels was a marketing ploy from a patch lube manufacturer. Mostly debunked. I would rather use a good gun oil or rig to protect my barrels from rust after cleaning.BJH
BJH

Offline Maven

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Re: Seasoning
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2015, 04:38:20 PM »
BJH is correct.  Here's a link to why we don't [need to] do it:
 
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/251958/
Paul W. Brasky

Offline moleeyes36

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Re: Seasoning
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2015, 05:09:23 PM »
I go by the rule that if a manufacturer tells you his product seasons the bore you have to suspect all his other claims are malarkey as well.

Mole Eyes 
Don Richards
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kaintuck

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Re: Seasoning
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2015, 02:31:02 PM »
I season with oregano, some sea salt and chives.........good stuff!

Tomtom said this.... ;D

Offline Standing Bear

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Re: Seasoning
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2015, 03:28:56 PM »
Sounds good tomtom.  I found bacon grease and a little garlic work well.
TC
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Offline drago

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Re: Seasoning
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2015, 02:28:32 PM »
Some of this stuff is really hard to fully comprehend. We do not season our barrels, but we have seasoned shooters?

Offline Daryl

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Re: Seasoning
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2015, 06:03:49 PM »
Some of this stuff is really hard to fully comprehend. We do not season our barrels, but we have seasoned shooters?

LOL - exactly - some of us actually get pickled.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2015, 06:04:23 PM by Daryl »
Daryl

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Offline Chuck Burrows

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Re: Seasoning
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2015, 08:02:26 PM »
BJH is correct.  Here's a link to why we don't [need to] do it:
 
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/251958/

Not a good source - Paul got it all mostly wrong - for one barrels other than some cannon barrels were made of wrought iron nd not cast iron - two different metals. Metal Porosity is a complicated subject and most of the so-called porosity that folks see in cast iron is due to air bubbles.

Seasoning a frying pan or whatever (and yes both steel and iron can be seasoned - just look up the facts - i.e. Lodge advertises both) is a surface treatment i.e. heat polymerizing the oil until it forms a more solid/harder varnish type finish.
As for modern iron barrels vs modern steel barrels - I have used both considerably since 1962 and frankly they need to be used and cared for the same way. The idea that all iron barrels were softer than modern plain steel barrels depends on the type and quality of the wrought iron used. Over the last 50+ years I've used close to a ton of real period wrought iron in the three most common grades - single, double, triple - and much of it had a carbon content between .2% and .4% - higher than the most common BP barrel steel today (12L14) which is nominally .14% carbon. Then you have the silica slag inclusions in WI that can make it very tough with harder spots - the stuff can wear out files in record time.
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And that has made all the difference.

Offline Mad Monk

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Re: Seasoning
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2015, 01:39:44 AM »
The whole thing about "seasoning a barrel" came out around the mid-1980s and was a best an advertising hoax.

Nobody seemed to grasp that there was a corrosive salt in the black powder that should have never been there.

Mad Monk

Offline Daryl

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Re: Seasoning
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2015, 06:50:23 PM »
IIRC - the "seasoning" 'shift' was solely presented by advertising 'outfits' to get people to buy that scented lib balm as a patch lube - The "suggestion" of seasoning like a cast iron frying pan was that once they bought that stuff and "seasoned" their bores, they didn't have to do that awful chore of cleaning their barrels - or the barrels would clean easier. The suggestive advertising was that "seasoning" would protect them from rust and corrosion.
 
Today many people getting into the sport and not wanting to spend good money on a new rifle in case they don't like it, purchase a 'used' production ML that went through the  'seasoned hype period' -  cleaned or not and usually if cleaned, not cleaned well (never dismantled) by once a year (spl. season) shooters - these guns invariably have rough bores, some are downright rotten from lack of cleaning or from buying the hype of Pyrodex - YIKES!  These new shooters cannot seem to load snug combinations and have to wipe the bores often can only be loaded with uselessly loose combinations balls such as .010" and .005" undersize balls with .010" & .012" patches that barely 'touch' the tops of the lands - then wonder why their guns shoot & foul so badly - then they lose interest & it's mostly due to poor intel received from listening to salesperson hype - these very people who know nothing about the sport, except what they've read of packaging from companies who have a 'super product' to sell to the unsuspecting.

Get a new barrel and install it - be done with this seasoning BS - do some research on crowning the muzzle so you can load an effective, accurate combination such as .005" under bore size and a heavily compressed denim patch measuring .022". This load is a good start and actually shoots well in every rifle I have tried it in - in some, it is the BEST load possible other than going to an over-bore-size ball and the same patch.

One merely has to find the powder charge your gun likes with (.005 under + .022" patch) this combination.  Not kidding - every gun I have tried this combination in, shoots VERY well.  From there, experiment with thicker patches and more powder, usually, for even better accuracy.
If you think squib loads (light) give the best accuracy, check the loads the Bench-Rest, Chunk, Cross-stick and Plank Shooters are using.  You will not find loads anywhere near bore size and some of these contests are at 50 to 60yards only.

If you only shoot at 25 yards - and lots of people do, about any decent load will make a single small hole for 5 shots, barley double ball size. It's when you step out to 50 yards and further, that dedicated load development must be performed on your rifle - if you want to be in the winner's circle, that is.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline moleeyes36

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Re: Seasoning
« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2015, 10:01:10 PM »
Daryl,

Well said!  Well said indeed!  Especially the "scented lip balm" quip.  I'm going to steal that line and get a lot of mileage out of it in the future.   :D :D :D :D :D

Mole Eyes
Don Richards
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Offline Mad Monk

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Re: Seasoning
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2015, 09:38:13 PM »
Daryl,

Well said!  Well said indeed!  Especially the "scented lip balm" quip.  I'm going to steal that line and get a lot of mileage out of it in the future.   :D :D :D :D :D

Mole Eyes

I was going to try to PM you and give you the whole story Daryl was hinting at.

The whole nonsense started in the early 1980's when Young came out with Young Country 103 lube.  Picked some up in 1983 at the then annual Morgan's Rifles shoot at Winchester, VA.  On the same table was a container of Ox-Yoke patch lube.  Rumor was that one day Young had gone to the range and forgot his patch lube.  So he lubed patches with the Chap Stick he was carrying and it worked great.  So Young simply purchased Chap Stick in bulk and packaged it down to his lube.

So I took both samples into the lab I worked in at the time.  Turned out both lubes were the same thing.  Chap Stick.  Now Young was supplying Ox-Yoke.  With Ox-Yoke you got an ounce less for the same price.  The missing ounce being their cut to make a profit.

Then in 1984 Ox-Yoke came out with the Wonder Lube.  Jumped on that one.  In one container I had oil separate out of the lube and form on the top of the lube in the container.  Took it up to the research lab and had an IR done on it.  Turned out to be mineral oil with an orange oil-soluble dye.  Found it had about 5% oil of wintergreen in it.  Why this in the lube??  Then I did some solvent extractions to look at the waxy base material.

Then I noted that at the time Ox-Yoke was located in West Suffield, CT.  Across the river was a big pharmaceutical company in Suffield, CT that made products like mineral ice and chest rubs.  Oil of wintergreen is used in chest rubs for the common cold or as a pain reliever for muscle sprains or arthritic joints.  All based on paraffin wax or petrolatum.  So much for the claim of all-natural none petroleum.  The only reason I could see for the orange dye in the mineral oil was to give the user the idea is was based on beeswax.

So we simply switched from a lip balm to a chest rub!!

Last weekend was the Gunmaker's Fair.  Had a few people laughing on this lube history thing.


mad Monk

Offline hanshi

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Re: Seasoning
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2015, 10:47:08 PM »
Mad Monk, if that don't "splain" the situation to the seasoning crowd, then nothing will.
!Jozai Senjo! "always present on the battlefield"
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.

Offline Mad Monk

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Re: Seasoning
« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2015, 12:06:53 AM »
I don't even want to think of what good smoked bacon would taste like cooked in a cast iron frying pan seasoned with that stuff!

Mad Monk

Offline Daryl

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Re: Seasoning
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2015, 01:04:07 AM »
LOL ;D
Daryl

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Offline Candle Snuffer

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Re: Seasoning
« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2015, 01:06:56 AM »
If I recall correctly, Thompson Center was the leading promoter of the so called "seasoning the bore (barrel)" with their Bore Butter. I honestly don't know if anyone took them seriously or not? I know I didn't and I can't imagine anyone would unless they were new to this sport - which unfortunately that individual would be receiving IMHO very poor information from a once one time quality manufacturer.
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Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Seasoning
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2015, 05:01:57 AM »
LOL ;D

My wife makes a fine spaghetti salad with "seasoning" salad seasoning
and it's good stuff.

Bob Roller

Offline Mad Monk

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Re: Seasoning
« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2015, 06:47:06 AM »
If I recall correctly, Thompson Center was the leading promoter of the so called "seasoning the bore (barrel)" with their Bore Butter. I honestly don't know if anyone took them seriously or not? I know I didn't and I can't imagine anyone would unless they were new to this sport - which unfortunately that individual would be receiving IMHO very poor information from a once one time quality manufacturer.

Actually it was the lube supplier to T/C.  T/C sold the Wonder Lube in tubes and called it bore butter.  For a few years Ox-Yoke advertised that if you sent your barrel to them they would season it for a price.  I used to laugh.  I had visions of a bunch of ML barrels hung on wires in the tank used to melt the lube for packaging.

Mad Monk

Offline moleeyes36

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Re: Seasoning
« Reply #23 on: August 01, 2015, 03:19:22 PM »
And the sorry thing is that many people still believe in this horse hockey about seasoning the bore.  Whenever I'm working with new shooters I find many with this kind of lube and they had it because they bought into the fairytale of bore seasoning.  Thanks for the background on it; I'd never heard the history of how the con job started.

Mole Eyes 
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NRA Chief Range Safety Officer

Offline mountainman70

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Re: Seasoning
« Reply #24 on: August 01, 2015, 03:59:33 PM »
I don't even want to think of what good smoked bacon would taste like cooked in a cast iron frying pan seasoned with that stuff!

Mad Monk

Be like eatin bacon and rubbin Copenhagen at same time.I have been told I is well seasoned-more a salty ol dog than anything else.I like the pickled goin on,too.ol,cheers y'all   Dave ;D