aniline dyes

[brokenflint]

Can anyone tell me more about these dyes?  I've seen that they are a pigment in either liquid or powder form.  I'd be interested in seeing work done in the process, that and telling me the ins and outs so to speak with your experience with them.

Thanks
BF

[Stophel]

While they can be helpful in repairing stocks and matching up places that have been damaged or otherwise in some unusual condition where Aqua Fortis won't work, I simply do not like them, and will not use them for a real stock stain.  Aniline dyes look like aniline dyes, and they do not look like what you will see on original 18th and 19th century guns.  Others seem to think they look fine, but personally, I can spot aniline dye from a mile away.  It has a very artificial look to me.  Electric stain.  That is my opinion on them, anyway.

Their colorfast qualities seem less than totally reliable, depending upon who you talk to.  One person might say they are wonderful, another might say that under various real world circumstances they sometimes fade and even simply wash out.  Some swear by them, others swear at them.

 

[bob in the woods]

I held off commenting, just to see what others had to say. I know a number of folks who use them because of the "predictability" ,  so they say.  I have used them , but am not fond overall.  Against aquafortis, you can see the difference. I sure can. Also had fading issues. 

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I have found that dyes, especially Laurel Mt. dyes, leach out right through the finish.  They are not UV safe...fade like all get out.  They are not suitable for a guns stock stain, IMMHO.  My rifles get used well, and these dyes are not suitable.  For a closet queen, perhaps.

I am happy with Ferric Nitrate, no matter what colour it gives.

[smart dog]

Hi Brokenflint,
I can tell you a lot about water-based aniline dyes.  All of the guns pictured below were stained or tinted with water-based aniline dyes.  Not one has suffered from use, not one has faded with use, and the staining of all, except the maple stocked long rifle, is done better with aniline dyes than any other substance.







Currently, on maple, I choose ferric nitrate, or plain nitric acid in addition to aniline dyes over the acid.  I would not use any acid-based stains on walnut or cherry.  The latter woods can be tinted very nicely with aniline dyes and all of the guns and wood shown above have been used outdoors and exposed to direct sunlight for hours.  Aniline dyes will fade in direct UV light if exposed for a long time but none of the guns above have faded despite much use in the sun.  I use dyes in basic colors from Brownell and then mix them to achieve any color I desire.

dave  

[WadePatton]

While they can be helpful in repairing stocks and matching up places that have been damaged or otherwise in some unusual condition where Aqua Fortis won't work, I simply do not like them, and will not use them for a real stock stain.  Aniline dyes look like aniline dyes, and they do not look like what you will see on original 18th and 19th century guns.  Others seem to think they look fine, but personally, I can spot aniline dye from a mile away.  It has a very artificial look to me.  Electric stain.  That is my opinion on them, anyway.

Their colorfast qualities seem less than totally reliable, depending upon who you talk to.  One person might say they are wonderful, another might say that under various real world circumstances they sometimes fade and even simply wash out.  Some swear by them, others swear at them.

 

this is the general feel I get from all the reading here I've done on them.  I bought a sack full and tried and tried to get a color I liked, but wound up using a "pre-tannin" and AF to get what I got.  Then I reshaped the stock somewhat and blended in the finish with no problems.

I have ferric nitrate solutions made up now and will likely used them for all subsequent Maple and Ash builds.  Cherry is another horse as is Walnut.  

I've seen some wonderful colors developed with dyes, but wonder how they've held up in the years since they left the maker.

As you can see by the replies thus far.  It's another "polarizing" subject.  You just won't know which works best for you until you try a little bit of everything.  I really thought I could get some good colors with dyes, but my first piece of wood simply preferred AF.

[smart dog]

Hi,
Maybe an explanation of my objectives for the guns above might help you understand why I chose to mix primary colors of aniline dyes.  The pistols were stocked in American black walnut but I wanted to match the color of English walnut I observed in several pairs of original English pistols that I handled.  Black walnut often has a purple-brown undertone that is cold.  I gave the pistols a wash of yellow dye, which wiped out the purple tone and gave the stocks the exact rich reddish brown that matched the originals.  The ornate fowler is cherry but I gave it a dilute wash of scarlet and orange aniline dye to match the color of an apple wood stocked wheellock displayed at the NY Metropolitan Museum of Art.  The next rifle was given the same treatment as the pistols to make the black walnut match the color of my original English percussion double.  The pistol case is Honduras mahogany given a orangy-brown wash to bring out the richness of the natural color making it look more like Cuban mahogany, the king of furniture wood.  It darkened over time and now is an exact match to the antique Cuban mahogany furniture in the owner's home.  The maple-stocked rifle was given a wash in scarlet dye and then a rich mahogany brown applied on top.  I used the dyes because at the time I could not get nitric acid flown in to my home (at the time) in Alaska and did not know of ferric nitrate crystals.  The rifle is currently used a lot by its owner in Idaho without trouble fading.  Each gun had an objective and dyes were the best way to achieve them with the exception that acid stains are best on maple or woods without a lot of tannin.  With respect to acid stains on maple, I believe ferric nitrate crystals give the best color control, although it is always something of a $#@* shoot and depends on the wood.  Finally, I am not sure why some folks seem to have trouble applying aniline dyes.  Maybe oil or alcohol-based dyes are more difficult, but my water-based colors are easy to apply, stain deeply and evenly, and give me maximum control of color.

dave

[KLMoors]

Great information as always, Dave.  I get 90% of my coloring out of ferric nitrate crystals. But, I still use the dyes in specific areas to get some of the shades I am looking for in my "antiquing" process.   

The gun I am currently finishing up was stained with the tannic acid/ferric nitrate process and came out with very nice colors.

[Acer Saccharum]

My understanding is that some aniline dyes a re light-stable and others are not. Buy after research. I don't use them.