19th Century MO Gunsmiths; B. Bahn and Bros.

[ChrisB28]

Wondering if anyone knows where I can find a book on MO gunsmiths of the 19th century.  I'm particularly interested in finding info on, and locating/purchasing rifles made by, B. Bahn & Bros. (Bernard and George William Bahn, gunsmiths) of Cape Girardeau, MO.  Thanks.

[Don Stith]

Missouri Gunsmiths to 1900  by Victor A Paul. It was published in 1999

[Avlrc]

Here is one by James Whisker

http://www.amazon.com/Gunsmiths-Allied-Tradesmen-Missouri-James/dp/B004M6OT3M/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1436064762&sr=8-1&keywords=gunsmiths+of+missouri+whisker&pebp=1436064935273&perid=0EM6BZSSB4079C3XFRCB

[gooseripper]

I have one I'll sell and I just messaged you

[ChrisB28]

HI Gooseripper:  I just now saw your post, and didn't get your message for some reason.  Still have a Bahn rifle for sale?

[Dennis Glazener]

Dr Whisker has that book forsale here http://americanlongrifles.org/Books_frame.htm
without the high shipping cost!
Dennis

[ChrisB28]

Hi - Do you still have a B Bahn and Brother ball-and-cap Rifle, and is it potentially for sale.  If so, please email or text me (cb28@sbcglobal.net; 314-749-6614).  Thx.

[directly]

Are there price ranges established for the Bahn rifles if looking to buy ? ?--also is there any information on Wagner rifles made in Jackson Missouri--thanks

[Avlrc]

Here is a Bahn marked rifle,
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/868363732

[directly]

Thanks for the link on Bahn rifle-- , I will contact the seller and see if there is any wiggle room  ??--thanks

[directly]

st
 


Question--is this stamped name the gunsmith name or the owners name?--thanks

[Hungry Horse]

 It’s usually the gunsmiths name, and occasionally the barrel makers name is stamped on the barrel. Nobody is going to have a stamp made to mark one or two rifles, so owners, and low production gunsmiths, names are generally engraved, rather than stamped.

  Hungry Horse

[directly]

Checking the list of US Percussion makers this name (D. Hartkopp)  isn't listed, is this common --thanks

[Avlrc]

Could not find it in Summers either.  Post pictures of the entire rifle and maybe someone can identify  the area or state which it was made.  Possible they  may be info on him in a state book of gunsmiths. 

[directly]

D Hartkopp rifle --the lock appears to have a deer hand etched into the rear on the lock plate. --any ideals?-also does cleaning the plate hurt its originality--kind of neat somone used a indian head penny to fill in a sight slot -thanks again

[directly]

I took a couple pictures hopes these help==??--






how to google a photo

[WESTbury]

does cleaning the plate hurt its originality[

Don't clean any area where there is any kind of patina, etc, etc.

[directly]

I will leave the patina alone--actually a very nice looking antique percussion rifle as found-(any ideal of approximate values?)-thanks 

P/S picked up a very nice original Bahn Bros rifle yesterday --------

[WESTbury]

Sounds like you're on a roll! You could become the "Hunt Brothers" of Bahn rifles. 

Thanks for sharing the pictures.

[directly]

The person who owned the D. Hartkoff rifle with the Indian head penny offered me a old oil painting they claim went with the rifle showing a Indian Chief holding a percussion rifle. I can confirm the original oil painting is probably period --my questions should I pursue --in any event a cool combo? (would be difficult to prove the Chief actually owned the rifle, but its still interesting in any event?)

[Tanselman]

Before putting a lot of effort into trying to "connect" the painting and rifle, I would suggest taking the painting to an art gallery that sells both new and older art, and have an expert look at the canvas, painting style, frame and stretchers, etc., and date the painting for you. The plastic film over the painting makes viewing it a little uncertain, but the style of frame, vibrant colors, and style of painting suggests 20th century to me. Shelby Gallien

[directly]

Before putting a lot of effort into trying to "connect" the painting and rifle, I would suggest taking the painting to an art gallery that sells both new and older art, and have an expert look at the canvas, painting style, frame and stretchers, etc., and date the painting for you. The plastic film over the painting makes viewing it a little uncertain, but the style of frame, vibrant colors, and style of painting suggests 20th century to me. Shelby Gallien
[/quote]

***Good suggestion***--Correct the frame isn't original to the painting, -I will use your advise-thanks for the input--stay tuned

[Hungry Horse]

 The use of Indian head pennies, and other coins of small denomination for filler material for unused dovetails is actually fairly common. I’ve seen several used for this purpose, and am often left pondering what the importance is of the design, or date lift showing.

  Hungry Horse

[Curt J]

I suspect that the D. Hartkopp  rifle was made by the gunsmith that Vic Paul listed in his book, MISSOURI GUNSMITHS TO 1900 as Daniel "Hartkoff". He was listed in New London, Ralls County, Missouri in an 1867/68 directory, and in Fredericktown, Madison County, Missouri in an 1885/86 directory. It is not unusual for surnames to be misspelled in the old directories.