Author Topic: Question Concerning A Very Dry Stock  (Read 7972 times)

longrifle

  • Guest
Question Concerning A Very Dry Stock
« on: March 06, 2009, 09:00:55 PM »
I have this original 75 Cal. musket. The gun is in very good overall condition, but the stock is extremely dry.The stock is dark walnut it has what looks like an original oil finish, so I have been rubbing BLO into it. That seems to help some but after about two or three weeks the stock starts looking dry and dull again. I don't want to do anything drastic because the stock has a nice patina to it that I don't want to change. Is there anything that I can do to add a little moisture to the wood without harming the existing color and patina of the wood. It is a 1842 military musket.

Offline Stophel

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4532
  • Chris Immel
Re: Question Concerning A Very Dry Stock
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2009, 09:08:28 PM »
DO NOT put linseed oil on it!!!!!!

Despite popular belief, wood does not need to be "moisturized" or "fed"...

Wood is perfectly happy being clean and dry.  If the wood is cracked, then the damage is already done.  It cannot be reversed.

You can clean it and wax it, but please no linseed oil, or worse, lemon oil.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2009, 09:09:26 PM by Stophel »
When a reenactor says "They didn't write everything down"   what that really means is: "I'm too lazy to look for documentation."

longrifle

  • Guest
Re: Question Concerning A Very Dry Stock
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2009, 09:18:59 PM »
Ok thanks for the quick reply. I didn't use but very little BLO just 2 or 3 drops rubbed in.  I'll just clean and wax.

Offline Stophel

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4532
  • Chris Immel
Re: Question Concerning A Very Dry Stock
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2009, 09:54:53 PM »
You can use a soft brush, water, perhapse even a bit of mild soap to get rid of the dirt.  Wipe it off, let it dry good, and then you can wax it.  Waxing makes a big difference in the look.  Makes it look like something again.  Gives it just a tiny bit of shine.
When a reenactor says "They didn't write everything down"   what that really means is: "I'm too lazy to look for documentation."

Offline JTR

  • member 2
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4218
Re: Question Concerning A Very Dry Stock
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2009, 10:09:30 PM »
Whatever you do, DON'T use Murphy's Oil Soap!!!! That stuff will quickly take off the patina,,, don't ask how I know..
Some good paste wax like Goddards will add a nice luster. It dries without any residue or white stuff in the grain or cracks.
John
John Robbins

Offline Lucky R A

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1622
  • In Costume
Re: Question Concerning A Very Dry Stock
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2009, 09:01:30 PM »
    I like Bri Wax in the dark brown color.  Great stuff!
"The highest reward that God gives us for good work is the ability to do better work."  - Elbert Hubbard

Offline Hurricane ( of Virginia)

  • Library_mod
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2081
Re: Question Concerning A Very Dry Stock
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2009, 06:09:09 AM »
Renaissance Wax does a nice job as well but a bit expensive
Hurricane

Offline Steve Collward

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 279
Re: Question Concerning A Very Dry Stock
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2009, 03:29:18 PM »
Interesting thread with some good advice and suggestions.  It was advised not to use boiled linseed or lemon oil.  Could someone offer what the negative effects would be? 


Offline Dphariss

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9751
  • Kill a Commie for your Mommy
Re: Question Concerning A Very Dry Stock
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2009, 04:52:15 AM »
Store bought BLO is fairly acid, sometimes will rot the cloth if used for oil cloth, and dries pretty slowly.
I oiled the stock of an original Sharps a few years back but it was with home cooked oil which is well neutralized.
This stock was pretty dry and had a thin layer of loose "something" degraded wood and/or finish on it.
I oiled it and would do the same thing again. I looked at the gun a few times over the years and it was unchanged after 15 years or so.
I have also used it and walnut and butternut hull extract to match color on a damaged walnut stock from the 1870s. It was pale walnut with a dark finish and repairing the damage meant breaking through the very thin color.
Properly prepared BLO has its uses.
Store bought BLO is not for gunstocks, old or new.

Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Mike R

  • Guest
Re: Question Concerning A Very Dry Stock
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2009, 04:12:42 PM »
I fully accept everyone's advice here for the case at hand.  I do want to say, however, that I had great luck in "bringing back" a walnut stock of a modern shotgun that had dried out by using a bit of artist quality linseed oil [I have been using this stuff for many years despite alot of folks warnings to the contrary].  I found the gun on an upper shelf of a pawn shop in hot Tulsa, OK back in the late 80s. It is a fine Browning O/U and had originally an oil finsh, but had dried out and looked bad--bought it for half its value and took it home. After a couple coats of linseed oil it looked like new--and still does over 20 years later!
« Last Edit: March 09, 2009, 05:27:38 PM by Mike R »

Offline Tom Moore

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 127
Re: Question Concerning A Very Dry Stock
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2009, 05:16:58 PM »
Please tell me more about artist quality linseed oil. How is it different? Where do I get some? Probably an artist's supply store DUH!  ;D

Mike R

  • Guest
Re: Question Concerning A Very Dry Stock
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2009, 05:25:19 PM »
Yes. Any store that sell art supplies, artists oil paints, etc. Linseed oil is the extending agent and does harden. I don't have a clue as to how it differs from the linseed oil that stock finishers used to use [yes it was in favor once].  I have used artists linseed oil on stocks since the 70s, as is out of the bottle, for a hand rubbed finish. I also do not deny the claims of others more knowledgeable than me that linseed oil is not an ideal finish.  I was taught to use it and have found no fault with it personally.

Offline Tom Moore

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 127
Re: Question Concerning A Very Dry Stock
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2009, 06:47:40 PM »
Well, this is interesting. There are several artist linseed oils. The one we’re referring to is (I think) the alkali refined linseed oil. There is also: cold-pressed linseed oil, oxidatively polymerized linseed oil, bleached or partially polymerized linseed oil, polymerized linseed oil, and drying linseed oil. http://www.artsupply.com/winsornewton/linseed%20oil.htm
My, My!  :o

Robin Hewitt

  • Guest
Re: Question Concerning A Very Dry Stock
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2009, 03:12:48 AM »
The thing that amazes me about boiled linseed is how it defies gravity. No matter how careful you are there is always a crust under the bottle cap.

A friend of mine had a squeeze bottle of unboiled linseed with a spout, there was always a pool of oil around it and he thought someone had to be squeezing it when he wasn't there. Then one night he sat there and watched it drip, it seems to have a strange vapour phase that ends when it reaches the outside world.

Odd stuff, personally I can't abide the smell unless it's on a cricket bat  ;D

Offline Dphariss

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9751
  • Kill a Commie for your Mommy
Re: Question Concerning A Very Dry Stock
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2009, 08:58:45 AM »
The problem with artist stand oil and other artists oils is that they are colorless so they do not distort the pigment mixed in by the artist. Oil processed for stock finish was processed differently (lower cost) and the color of the oil also tends to bring out more figure in the wood when the dark oil soaks in.
While this high grade oil is probably largely acid free it may dry slower and will not have the HC color for linseed oil stock finish.

Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Mike R

  • Guest
Re: Question Concerning A Very Dry Stock
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2009, 04:41:37 PM »
The problem with artist stand oil and other artists oils is that they are colorless so they do not distort the pigment mixed in by the artist. Oil processed for stock finish was processed differently (lower cost) and the color of the oil also tends to bring out more figure in the wood when the dark oil soaks in.
While this high grade oil is probably largely acid free it may dry slower and will not have the HC color for linseed oil stock finish.

Dan


That is true, but I use it on wood that either is already naturally colored [walnut...] or has been stained [aqua fortis, etc.].   It seems to dry in a reasonable time, but perhaps not as fast as a production maker of guns would like :)...as an artist [of sorts] I have used artists linseed oil for over 50 years--it has worked for me whether on canvas or on wood...

Offline Dphariss

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9751
  • Kill a Commie for your Mommy
Re: Question Concerning A Very Dry Stock
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2009, 05:45:14 PM »


That is true, but I use it on wood that either is already naturally colored [walnut...] or has been stained [aqua fortis, etc.].   It seems to dry in a reasonable time, but perhaps not as fast as a production maker of guns would like :)...as an artist [of sorts] I have used artists linseed oil for over 50 years--it has worked for me whether on canvas or on wood...

I understand completely and you are on the right track except for color of the oil (IMO anyway).
But the point I am trying to make is the dark oil improves the wood stained or not.
Walnut especially responds very well to dark oil. Any natural oil is good but a dark oil acts like a subtle stain that darkens areas that absorb more oil. It also makes the right color fill on walnut.
While "stand" oil type products have been available for centuries they were not used by gunstockers due to cost. It took a long time to make the oil for artists use. A gallon or more of stock finish can be made in a couple of hours and then used as soon as cool.
It gives better color and definition to the wood and was cheaper to make.
Once of the reasons for lifeless modern stocks is the finish used. Clear plastic finishes often used are especially bad and leave a finish and color that makes the wood nearly one dimensional like the grain was painted on.
I know people who used Varathane because "linseed is not water proof". One can tell a stock finished with this stuff at a distance.
The shiny coating applied to many modern guns, I am thinking of a Browning SS I had to refinish when the plastic delaminated from the wood when I installed a plate in the wrist for a tang sight.
It was a nice piece of Walnut but nearly lifeless. I had to use epoxy stripper to get it off and refinished (for free) with oil. The difference was striking.
It is likely that a similar result would have been obtained with stand oil or similar but IMO the dark oil does a better job.
We all do things that we find work best for us. I certainly would not try to say your approach is wrong. On the contrary IMO it is fundamentally right for a stock finish. I just like the dark oil ;)

This whole thing is an ongoing exercise for me. I am thinking about linseed oil varnishes now.
The dark remnants found on original rifles intrigue me. The finish on Vincent Ohio rifles needs more looking at. Building a Vincent without this finish tends to leave the project lacking.
The reddish/reddish brown/brown (now at least) varnish seen below appears on a great many rifles, some in the "museum" here show it.
This rifle is a S. Hawken once owned by Jim Bridger. The finish is well worn but is full to near full depth on the buttstock and in other low wear areas. It has NO checks, cracks or flakes or ANY failure aside from being worn away. It is obviously a boiled oil varnish with pigments/driers that give it color and allowed it to dry to a shine of greater or lesser brightness. It is surely the only color put on the wood. This stuff, used well into the cartridge era in various colors some much like stand oil in color but usually fairly dark, was often put on without a brush according to some who have looked closely at some varnished 1870s-80s BL guns. Rubbed on apparently showing the pattern of the finishers skin in the finish under magnification. But???
The varnish on the Hawken is (now) dark brown but closer examination show a lot of red undertones. making me wonder what the original color was and if it was really all that "bright" when new, its fairly dull now. Bright shiny finishes were not recommended for use on the plains since they acted like signal mirrors and could be seen to the horizon, or at least many miles if they reflected the sun to the distant person.
But I digress ;D

Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Offline T*O*F

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5076
Re: Question Concerning A Very Dry Stock
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2009, 06:22:41 PM »
Back to the original question:

Go to www.Kramerize.com and read it.  John's products are not snake oil and he is one of our leading authority's on antique finishes.  He is also heavily involved in Living History and is a member of the American Mountain Men.

His products are used by many museums and if used properly will clean, restore any original finish remaining, and nourish the dry wood.  There is absolutely no reason to fool around with any "home brewed concoctions" of your own manufacture.

Take the time to educate yourselves and read all the information on his site.
Dave Kanger

If religion is opium for the masses, the internet is a crack, pixel-huffing orgy that deafens the brain, numbs the senses and scrambles our peer list to include every anonymous loser, twisted deviant, and freak as well as people we normally wouldn't give the time of day.
-S.M. Tomlinson