Help Me plan A Squirrel Rifle

[archertl]

This will be my first muzzle loader build. However, I have a decent amount of experience fitting semi inletted stocks and crescent butt plates on marlin lever actions. I also have experience cutting dovetails in barrels. I plan on getting a lock and trigger set and practice fitting them into blocks of walnut before building the rifle. I think this will help me gain some experience as I have never had to cut mortise and fit a trigger to a lock before. I would like the rifle to be as historically correct to one that would be carried in Northern Kentucky and Southern Ohio around 1820-1830. That is the region i grew up in and holds many memories. I would like the rifle to have a nose cap,butt plate, and be mounted with iron hardware. I am unsure what lock and trigger would be appropriate for that style of rifle. I bought .32 3/4″42″ rayl barrel. I am also unsure if i should buy a stock blank or a precarved one. I have run into frustrating manufacturer issues with precarved stocks for center fire rifles before. I would like the stock to have curl in the maple. that is were i am with it. I have Recreating the American Longrifle on order.

the reason why I want a squirrel rifle as my first build is because i have a great pair of curs that i hunt over.
 

[Hungry Horse]

 You probably won't have a lot of choices if you want a pre-carved stock with a 3/4" barrel channel. But there are some stock makers out there that will cut the channel in 3/4"for you. There are more than a few pre-carved stocks that could reflect the style of the region you desire, with a little re-shaping. The pre-carved is going to be easier for a first build. Just remember most of the time if you think you have taken off enough wood to make it look, and feel, like the originals, you haven't. Good Luck.

            Hungry Horse

[sqrldog]

Good looking sqrl dogs. As you can see by my handle I too hunt with sqrl dogs. Lots of fun. Fortunately there are several ways to end up with the sqrl rifle you want. I recommend you have the barrel and ramrod groove and hole done by someone set up to do it at least on your first build. Mark Weader at Jack Mountain Gunstocks or Dave Keck at Knob Mountain both do first rate work and can precarve the buttend of the stock to most any profile you desire. They are very knowledgeable and easty to talk with and can help with any questin you may have. Iron mounted rifles are mostly southern but carried about everywhere as people migrated from place to place. Have fun with your build. Tim Cosby

[hanshi]

Welcome to the forum, archertl.  A 3/4" barrel makes for a fine squirrel rifle that's easy to carry with good balance for shooting.  I have a .36 x 38" rifle that's a dream in the woods.

[Turtle]

 I have a 3/4 X 42  .32 cal barrel squirrel rifle and I love it. Tennessee Valley Manufacturing supplied the preshaped stock with barrel channel cut. I used a L+R Bailes flintlock and it also works well. Squirrell hunting with this rifle is one of my favorite things in the world.
                                                        Turtle
                             

[wattlebuster]

Very pretty dog

[Robby]

This should give you some ideas arch. Welcome aboard!
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=9725.0

All shapes and sizes there, like a smorgasbord for the hungry squirrel hunter.
Robby

[Joe Schell]

Everyone's given good advice about the stock. For a lock I'd get a late ketland from Jim Chambers & use Davis set triggers.

[kaintuck]

Take a look at knob mountain, Dave keck will Inlet  let your barrel and RR, and profile the stock.
You can then inlet the lock and TG of your choice.
His prices are VERY reasonable!......you can use his wood, or get dunlops woods to send him a blank.....
Both folks are trustworthy AAAA+++. Work.


As for squirrel dogs......to much walking and noise and work, tomtom is quiet, deadly, and brings the squirrel back to the shop.....I just have to wrestle it away from him!

Marc

[WadePatton]

Since you have seen the horrors of pre-inletted and shaped stocks, I'd go with a plank.

Bandsaw the pattern profile onto it, drill RR hole (I haven't solo'd this yet, but plan to next time.)  I have a copy of the pattern now.  Have set up 3 (2 are "on hold") with the help of John Anderson-maker of 180-or so and a fine offline gentleman.

Do all your layout planning on that fat square slab (you may have to "re-square" it somewhat), but know your "reference edge" and be true to it.  Let in bbl.  This determines location of touchhole-and thus pan.  Let in lock, this determines location of triggers.  Let in triggers and then buttplate and all the other hardware.  Then pare back the great slab to reveal the wonderful stock hiding beneath it all.  Carve/engrave and finish.  Easy Peasy!  

I think that bbl will fit a number of styles. I'm stuck on the TN sort until I get froggy and jump on something else.  Have great plans for a few more of the TN's for sure.  Beware that unadorned does not mean "easy".  With that said, I'd use maple or walnut, double set, English lock (like the Chambers Late Ketland) and "iron" crescent buttplate and Bean-ish guard.  For best TN-styling I'd extend the tang into the wrist and whittle it down nice and skinny. 

[archertl]

I have decided on the late ketland lock and re davis dst 4 triggers. I will wait until after I return from my fall hunting trip in Ohio to decide on the stock. While I am in Portsmouth, Ohio I have arranged to photograph and take measurements of a original rifle of .36 cal. The rifle is in possession of the Southern Ohio Museum and is supposed to have belonged to John Fox JR. Then across the street is a closed gun shop that is a meeting place for stories telling. My interest in muzzleloading developed from frequenting this place a few times a week while I was in college. I've heard stories of Bill Large, Harry Rife and others. I met the gun maker Jack Lewis there once as well. The owner has a large collection of original and contemporary rifles from the region. While I am visiting the shop and the owner I will try to handle as many small bore rifles as possible.  

[WadePatton]

I have decided on the late ketland lock and re davis dst 4 triggers. I will wait until after I return from my fall hunting trip in Ohio to decide on the stock. While I am in Portsmouth, Ohio I have arranged to photograph and take measurements of a original rifle of .36 cal. The rifle is in possession of the Southern Ohio Museum and is supposed to have belonged to John Fox JR. Then across the street is a closed gun shop that is a meeting place for stories telling. My interest in muzzleloading developed from frequenting this place a few times a week while I was in college. I've heard stories of Bill Large, Harry Rifle and others. I met the gun maker Jack Lewis there once as well. The owner has a large collection of original and contemporary rifles from the region. While I am visiting the shop and the owner I will try to handle as many small bore rifles as possible.   

Sounds like you are ON the right track.  Good plan.

[Dennis Glazener]

I love the late Ketland lock but with a 3/4" barrel I think I would also consider the L&R Manton lock (TOW calls it a John Balies lock). It's smaller than a late Ketland  4 3/8 versus 5" but you can round the tail off both of the locks and make them a little shorter. I think the Manton is also 1/8" thinner. Its a fast lock, not sure if its any faster than a late Ketland but just as fast.

It might be a little earlier lock but it could always represent an old lock off an earlier gun or maybe build the rifle in an earlier style.
Dennis

[Virginiarifleman]

I just recieved my Pecatonica North Carolina Stock and im very pleased with the figure of the wood and the inletting. im almost finished with my project. give them a call they will inlet any barrel for you.

[stuart cee dub]

I just built a light flintlock full stock,using a straight 13/16th across the flats in .40 cal .
It's too lightweight,needs more hang so to speak .But to each his own.
However skinny barrels present another challenge .

Having built guns with barrels as narrow as a 7/8'' barrel before I found the narrower 13/16th across the flats much more challenging .I had to ''operate'' through the barrel channel to redirect the ramrod hole away from the lock side so the mainspring did not interfere with the ramrod.I did use a very sparky Chambers Late Ketland.

As these guns get smaller in the cross section based on the barrel width ,things have to be just so ,much less margin for error.There is more fudging that goes on with the skinnier barrels. I am impressed with some of the work of the more skilled builders shown here where the 3/4'' inch barrels were used and the proportions were maintained.
Grain following the wrist would be much more important for strength .I would trade figure for grainflow everytime on a good hard stock blank .

Regards Stuart      

[ScottH]

Being in Western Washington you may want to consider contacting David Rase about inletting the ramrod and barrel in a blank for you. He lives in Western Washington too!

[sz]

I recommend building from a blank for several reasons

#1 You will learn more, and have more fun.
#2 You need not accept stock shape and measurements that are sold to you, but get to actually fit the gun to your own body.
#3 you get ANY choice of hardware and lock you like, and even hand made parts.
#4 you get a lot more satisfaction when you use the finished gun.
#5  you get free advise from me and from several other builders on this site, for nothing more than the time to ask.

[WadePatton]

I recommend building from a blank for several reasons

#1 You will learn more, and have more fun.
#2 You need not accept stock shape and measurements that are sold to you, but get to actually fit the gun to your own body.
#3 you get ANY choice of hardware and lock you like, and even hand made parts.
#4 you get a lot more satisfaction when you use the finished gun.
#5  you get free advise from me and from several other builders on this site, for nothing more than the time to ask.

#6 You will have lots of hunks of wood to test for finishing decisions and for making really nice handles and other knick knacks for the shop and home.

[WadePatton]

I just built a light flintlock full stock,using a straight 13/16th across the flats in .40 cal .
It's too lightweight,needs more hang so to speak ...

With respect Stuart, I do understand that it is magnificent to get a perfectly balanced gun out of the components compiled.

BUT I'll never understand why "underweight" would be an issue.  I completely get how to "sneak in" a little lead to balance things up if needed.  Like a poured nosecap instead of a sheetmetal one.  

But then i never have intentions of foolin' with a straight bbl.

---
and that is a good lookin' dawg. 

[Turtle]

  The L+R Bailes lock is perfect on my rifle, nice and small and fast and reliable. Although I'm hooked on the balance of a swamp barrel, my 3/4 X 42 .32 squirrel rifle is the best feeling straight barrel I have tried. I got my partially shaped stock from TVM with only the barrel and RR hole inlet. They leave a lot of wood to play with. I agree and would never get a stock with pre inlet lock or triggers.
                                                  Turtle