Author Topic: Getting close, need a little finishing advice?  (Read 4227 times)

Offline Bigmon

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Getting close, need a little finishing advice?
« on: July 08, 2015, 10:29:05 PM »
Was on here about to ask where to get powdered wood die or stain.  Then saw someone mention Laurel Mt Forge.
I have a cherry stock I want to finish cherry.
Would I use cherry stain like LMF has, or maybe finish just clear?
I dont think the clear will be dark enough??
Any ideas?
Any experience with LMF stains or permalin????
I have always been a true oil or BLO type guy.
Once I used thinned poly, didnt care allot for that but do want a tough finish???
Thanks ya'all.
Bigmon

Offline KLMoors

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Re: Getting close, need a little finishing advice?
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2015, 11:28:06 PM »
I've used the LMF stains and they are a high quality stain.  Whether or not you decide to stain the cherry would depend on the piece.  If it is not dark enough I wouldn't hesitate to stain it to get the color I want.

I've used permalyn and it is a good finish, as long as you stick to using the "sealer" version of it.  I found that the "finish" is too thick for my taste and builds up too fast.  Obviously, the permalyn is not a traditional finish, but it is very tough.  The Chambers Oil is a nice finish too.

Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: Getting close, need a little finishing advice?
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2015, 12:18:42 AM »
Quote
Was on here about to ask where to get powdered wood die or stain.  Then saw someone mention Laurel Mt Forge.
I have a cherry stock I want to finish cherry.
Would I use cherry stain like LMF has, or maybe finish just clear?
I don't think the clear will be dark enough??
Any ideas?
I personally would not use any type of stain on Cherry. I have never seen any that I thought looked right. If it is left natural it will gradually darken from exposure to sunlight. I like mine darker from the get-go and use a mix of Red Devil Lye mixed in water. I think years ago when I made it I used a teaspoon in about a qt of water. I still have about 3/4 of that batch sitting in a cabinet in my garage (in a plastic container).

Probably best to start with a weak mixture and keep adding until you get it the color you want. Might even experiment on a scap piece of the same wood to see if you like it. Warning, you can put 200 years of age on Cherry in just a few minutes with strong lye water!

*almost forgot, I originally made the lye water by running water through some old hickory and oak ashes that I took from our fireplace. You need to strain it through an old stocking, then let it sit until all of the crud settles to the bottom. Mine was so weak that I added the Red Devil Lye, found it at a local grocery store but I am not sure anyone has it anymore.
Good luck,
Dennis
« Last Edit: July 09, 2015, 12:22:26 AM by Dennis Glazener »
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Offline WadePatton

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Re: Getting close, need a little finishing advice?
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2015, 12:20:38 AM »
AS I have read cherry is often only enhanced with a lye wash, then finished and allowed to darken naturally.  Haven't done it yet, but that's my plan.

a pile of search results that may be helpful: https://www.bing.com/search?q=site%3Aamericanlongrifles.org+cherry+lye&pc=MOZI&form=MOZTSB

Or you may be fully aware.  I haven't had luck with dyes. Wish you the best.

edit: Dennis and I were thinkin' the same. But he has the upper hand on experience.  I try to learn from him.  ;)


Here's a single thread that covers most bases and even has a photo of a RED one (no stain). http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=23896.0

I found some regular old-fashioned, honest LYE in the hardware store a few months ago.  I bought a couple containers just to have around.  Made paint stripper and used it to clear a drain last...so handy, but supply fluctuates wildly.  This one is "Red Crown" "High Test Lye" which is sodium hydroxide.   

Also have a 30-gallon can full of woodstove ashes for leaching out potassium hydroxide, the other "lye".  They give slightly different results when making soaps, maybe so with cherry.  Test.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2015, 12:36:41 AM by WadePatton »
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Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: Getting close, need a little finishing advice?
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2015, 06:11:32 AM »
I just colored a Cherry stock using spray oven cleaner. It came out dark cherry red, very yummy.

Be aware, the lye makes it quite dark, quite fast. Neutralize with a dilute vinegar(which will lighten it up a LOT if you use full strength).


Try this on a test piece on a cut-off of the stock, if you have it.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2015, 06:12:37 AM by Acer Saccharum »
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Offline PPatch

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Re: Getting close, need a little finishing advice?
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2015, 03:19:15 PM »
Commercial wood stains tend to muddle cherry's natural colors, I would stay away from it on cherry. Cherry also comes in a great variety of grain coloring and contrasts, from bland to WOW and all in between. We have no way of knowing what you have at hand.

I believe your best route, like Dennis recommends, would be a dilute lye based mix and to go at it in light coats with a damp rag, to sneak up on your desired color. A little bit will do you. Be SURE to neutralize well before it gets as dark as you think you want it. Let it dry for a few days and begin your finishing processing. Remember too that the cherry will continue to darken naturally over time. Also, have all your neutralizing materials at hand before you apply the lye stain, it goes pretty fast. I'll tell you right now that there is a knack to staining cherry, if you have any left over stock material do practice on that before tackling your stock. If you have no leftover consider playing with the stain inside the barrel channel.

I have never done a gun stock with a lye based stain but have done lots of furniture with it. There was an old gentleman in our shop who made it up at home for our finishing department, he used Red Devil lye. Give Acer's suggestion of oven cleaner too, applied somewhere on scrap or in the barrel channel you can control and quickly stop the reaction.

dave

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Offline Pete G.

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Re: Getting close, need a little finishing advice?
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2015, 03:37:29 PM »
You can also use commercial drain cleaners like "Drano" to make a lye solution.

Offline Curt Larsen

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Re: Getting close, need a little finishing advice?
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2015, 04:36:13 PM »
I'm working on a cherry stock right now and have done lots of cherry furniture.  I agree with Dennis.  Just do it naturally, it will darken on its own.  I've used LMF cherry as an undercoat to the Lancaster maple I generally use on maple stocks.  If you use the LMF cherry, it is really, really, really red.  Try it on a piece of scrap and wipe it on very sparingly.
Curt

Offline bob in the woods

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Re: Getting close, need a little finishing advice?
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2015, 05:05:02 PM »
Leave it alone. I have done a # of pieces in cherry, and much prefer to let it age naturally.  One I finished a couple of months ago .  I just put it out in direct  sunlight  for a few days and the results were pretty rapid. 

Offline Bigmon

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Re: Getting close, need a little finishing advice?
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2015, 10:20:20 PM »
Thanks to all.  I think I am going to let it natural, or try the Lye as suggested.
I agree in looking at the LMF that the Cherry looks far toooored.
I hve seen a few old cherry stocks and what I am wanting is that natural near black look it gets when aged.

I also talked with a friend who is a highly thought of builder and he says he has sometimes used Leather Dye, thinned allot.
Thanks as always.  I really appreciate this great web site.
I have recently began trying to build again after being out of the loop for 30+ years.
There is allot more information available now, and easier to get.
Thanks again

Offline Keb

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Re: Getting close, need a little finishing advice?
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2015, 03:48:52 PM »
I've used oven cleaner on a few cherry stocks with mixed results. The "Easy-off heavy duty" brand must have a lot of lye in it because it turned the cherry very dark, almost black. I got some of the cheap stuff from the dollar store. It must be a lot weaker because I got a desirable color with it.