Author Topic: Dark (black?) stain for maple (Read 14255 times)

Dennis Glazener · « **on:** July 10, 2015, 12:09:37 AM »

The rifle that I am working on now is to be very dark, no reds/browns almost black. I have not stained one this color before. I like the dark reddish brown color.

What stains are normally used to get a dark almost black color? I have heard "black maria" chewing tobacco, "tar" any others? I wonder how Fiberlings black shoe dye would work, would like the grain to show through.
Dennis

Cory Joe Stewart · « **Reply #1 on:** July 10, 2015, 01:21:43 AM »

Dennis
i recently made a stain with apple cider vinegar and steel wool. It turned test pieces black so i dumped it out. I hate a did that now or i would send it to you. It was a sixteen ounce jar with a loaf and a half of steel wool. Those vinegar stains never come out the same way twice.

Coryjoe

P.Bigham · « **Reply #2 on:** July 10, 2015, 01:25:39 AM »

From Brownells R.Gale Lock CO. dark walnut #69 will get maple as dark as I would care to go. Also the store bought aquafortis will get very dark with repeated applications

Dennis Glazener · « **Reply #3 on:** July 10, 2015, 01:54:37 AM »

Quote

Dennis
i recently made a stain with apple cider vinegar and steel wool. It turned test pieces black so i dumped it out. I hate a did that now or i would send it to you. It was a sixteen ounce jar with a loaf and a half of steel wool. Those vinegar stains never come out the same way twice.

Coryjoe

Yes and if I made up a batch to get the black I bet it would turn out a nice reddish brown

I have some Ferric Nitrate and I thought I would see what I could do with that on some scrap.
Dennis

Dennis Glazener · « **Reply #4 on:** July 10, 2015, 01:57:03 AM »

Quote

Also the store bought aquafortis will get very dark with repeated applications

What brand of aquafortis? I have some in a bottle and it makes a nice reddish brown on most maple. Never got any aquafortis to look very dark unless I went over it with something. I have even tried applying several coats.
Dennis

bob in the woods · « **Reply #5 on:** July 10, 2015, 02:10:46 AM »

Somewhere, a long time ago, I read about nitric acid and silver, instead of iron. Made a very dark on maple. Haven't tried it myself yet, but thought about it for "ebonizing " maple. [ for instrument bindings]

P.Bigham · « **Reply #6 on:** July 10, 2015, 03:33:16 AM »

Whakon Bay I used in the past would go almost black. I believe it also depends a lot on the wood

smylee grouch · « **Reply #7 on:** July 10, 2015, 05:28:16 AM »

I used aquafortis first then used potasium permanginate(sp) on one stock several years ago that got quite dark.

WadePatton · « **Reply #8 on:** July 10, 2015, 07:22:51 AM »

Quote from: Coryjoe on July 10, 2015, 01:21:43 AM

Dennis
i recently made a stain with apple cider vinegar and steel wool. It turned test pieces black so i dumped it out. I hate a did that now or i would send it to you. It was a sixteen ounce jar with a loaf and a half of steel wool. Those vinegar stains never come out the same way twice.

Coryjoe

I made two acetic stains and one is only gray and the the other is reddish (on the single piece of maple I've tested). The gray one could become black maybe with concentration (heat the solution). I immediately saw the value in having two or more separate batches to mix and mingle to get the right color for each stock. Also I used cheap wine to "pre-tannin" load the maple before.

And the acetic experts tell me to simply dump more metal or more vinegar to shift the coloration.

It's a lot simpler when heat is removed from the process.

(bcuz i only has torch, not heat gun)

Dennis Glazener · « **Reply #9 on:** July 10, 2015, 03:22:20 PM »

Quote

I used aquafortis first then used potasium permanginate(sp) on one stock several years ago that got quite dark.

I recently tried the potassium permanganate on some scrap wood and it looked promising. The reason I kind of cast it aside is that I have heard it will not last when used on horns/antlers etc. I am not sure if that's due to wear or light exposure.
Dennis

Keb · « **Reply #10 on:** July 10, 2015, 03:38:58 PM »

Just use the store bought Whakon Bay A.F. from Track and use too much heat. It'll go black in a hurry.

David Rase · « **Reply #11 on:** July 10, 2015, 05:15:50 PM »

Dennis,
Here is an article that Jim Kibler pointed me to a while back on ebonizing wood that lacks sufficient tannic acid to blacken the wood. I have not tried it yet but I have the bark powder and plan on blackening a stock of my own.

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/techniques/ebonizing_wood

David

David R. Pennington · « **Reply #12 on:** July 10, 2015, 05:33:49 PM »

I have never been able to get more than a light brown from tobacco.

bama · « **Reply #13 on:** July 10, 2015, 06:01:55 PM »

Dennis i use Wakon Bay AF and if you apply it and heat with a heat gun you can turn maple almost black if you kept the heat on after the stock blushes redish brown. You have to be careful to not scorch the wood, especially fine edges.

Dennis Glazener · « **Reply #14 on:** July 10, 2015, 08:10:24 PM »

Quote

Here is an article that Jim Kibler pointed me to a while back on ebonizing wood that lacks sufficient tannic acid to blacken the wood. I have not tried it yet but I have the bark powder and plan on blackening a stock of my own.

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/techniques/ebonizing_wood

David

Thanks David, that looks interesting. I have used strong tea to age wood when fuming it with 28% Ammonia.

I am going to have to try the Whakon Bay A.F. again. I never was able to get a real dark finish with it. Might have been due to the wood being Red Maple which I believe is what this stock is.

Thanks to all for all the great suggestions. I should be able to find something that will turn out like I want it to look.
Thanks
Denis

Ed Wenger · « **Reply #15 on:** July 10, 2015, 08:20:21 PM »

LMF has an "Ebony Toner" stain... Don't know if that helps you. It gets other stains very dark.

Ed

PPatch · « **Reply #16 on:** July 10, 2015, 08:38:03 PM »

Ferric Nitrate: Here is one I learned on accident with FN on maple which had a medium nice figure before I applied a 5:1 FN to alcohol ratio fairly wet to the stock. It being late in the day I decided to leave it overnight and put the torch to it in the morning.

When I entered the shop the next AM I went into shock - that stock was the darkest shade of puke green you ever saw! "i've ruined it dang blast it! RUINED! I got to work attempting to scrape or sand it back to some recognizable something... no help, the stain too deep.

Finally I applied a drop of Chambers Oil in the barrel channel, it went very dark brown with decerable striping. In the shade you can't see the strips, grain but no strips. In the sunlight she pops pretty nice, deep chocolate brown with dark strips.

I grew fond of her over time, gave her to my son for his birthday.

dave

James Rogers · « **Reply #17 on:** July 10, 2015, 10:43:06 PM »

Quote from: bama on July 10, 2015, 06:01:55 PM

Dennis i use Wakon Bay AF and if you apply it and heat with a heat gun you can turn maple almost black if you kept the heat on after the stock blushes redish brown. You have to be careful to not scorch the wood, especially fine edges.

Agreed. Slathering with hardware linseed while heating after the initial blush helps even things while you heat. Put the Wahkon Bay on heavy with one of those cotton daubers and let it dry prior to blushing.

Scota4570 · « **Reply #18 on:** July 11, 2015, 01:41:53 AM »

Aquafortis then this,

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/1025/1/LMF-STAIN-ET

Should be pretty dark.

KLMoors · « **Reply #19 on:** July 11, 2015, 04:23:55 AM »

Yup, I'm jumping on the ebony toner bandwagon too! Mix it with some LMF walnut and it will be DARK.

billm · « **Reply #20 on:** July 15, 2015, 01:58:37 AM »

Magic maple from Dunlap.used it on last 2guns and is very dark.

Acer Saccharum · « **Reply #21 on:** July 15, 2015, 05:09:27 AM »

Magic Maple gives me the willies. I had a gun go vivid green.

Chuck Dixon said you DO NOT dilute it. It stains quite dark at full strength. If you do dilute to get a lighter shade, it can go green on ya when the gun is exposed to sunlight.

Chuck Burrows · « **Reply #22 on:** July 17, 2015, 09:55:32 PM »

1) no matter what over time, almost all Magic Maple stained stocks will turn green.
2) It uses chromium trioxide which is not something you want to get one your - friend splashed a bit on wrist some years ago and ate down into the bone and almost had to have it amputated. It's the nature of chromium trioxide to turn green as it ages per another friend who is a chemist (I have slept in a Holiday Inn! but I know my limitations...)

His suggestion is to use Ferric Nitrate - either homemade with iron dissolved in nitric acid (has it's own set of dangers) or just get the crystals from a chemical supply company such as The Science Company. Ferric nitrate is the base for the historical aqua fortis used in the past by gun makers.

Dennis - I find that with AF - apply, do not blush with heat, and set in the sun. Where I live in SW Colorado at 6300'ASL I can get maple to turn black in 2-3 hours. Once it gets as black as I want I blush with heat to help kill any residual acid and then wash down with ammonia and clean water. Let dry and apply finish. If it gets too black, you can rub back with 4/0 steel wool or scrub pads.

Dennis Glazener · « **Reply #23 on:** July 17, 2015, 10:09:46 PM »

Quote

It's the nature of chromium trioxide to turn green as it ages per another friend who is a chemist

AMEN, no chromium trioxide for me. I used it on the first rifle I ever built and it turned an awful shade of brownish green in less than 10 years. Looked great when I first finished it.

Quote

His suggestion is to use Ferric Nitrate - either homemade with iron dissolved in nitric acid (has it's own set of dangers) or just get the crystals from a chemical supply company such as The Science Company. Ferric nitrate is the base for the historical aqua fortis used in the past by gun makers.

Dennis - I find that with AF - apply, do not blush with heat, and set in the sun. Where I live in SW Colorado at 6300'ASL I can get maple to turn black in 2-3 hours. Once it gets as black as I want I blush with heat to help kill any residual acid and then wash down with ammonia and clean water. Let dry and apply finish. If it gets too black, you can rub back with 4/0 steel wool or scrub pads.

Right now I plan to use Ferric Nitrate, will try blushing it in the sun just to see how it works. Then if not dark enough I am going to hit it with black leather dye. I had hoped to be ready to stain it in a week or so but some things came up and I had to sit the project aside, probably will be a good while getting back on it.
Dennis

retired fella · « **Reply #24 on:** July 18, 2015, 01:03:33 AM »

Dennis,
Try medium brown shoe dye. Slather it on rather heavy and wipe back. I've done two stocks in this fashion and I get a dark brown look on maple. Finish off with linseed oil until it will take no more. Never tried it but was told years ago that black shoe dye will clump up?

I think you will find the color as dark as you want it. Good luck.

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Author Topic: Dark (black?) stain for maple (Read 14255 times)

billm