Author Topic: My 2nd attempt at casting rounball  (Read 5732 times)

cowboys1062

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My 2nd attempt at casting rounball
« on: July 18, 2015, 05:18:10 AM »
 Today I had my 2nd attempt at casting. It went way better than my first attempt. I ended up casting around 350 balls. I was able to keep half of them. Last time I casted I had alot of wrinkles in my balls. This time I casted at around 750 to 800 degrees. Problem solved, no wrinkles this time around. The balls I kept looked really good for the most part. The only issue that I noticed is that the ones I kept were a little on the low side in weight. About 95% of them were 175 to 176 grain. I was hoping for 177 to 178 grain. My lead and mold were plenty hot enough and I made sure to have plenty of extra lead on my sprue plate so the ball could suck up the extra lead when it solidified. I can't think of anything else I could do to get that extra grain or two. My mold is a Lee .490 double cavity mold. At .490 it should weigh 177 grain. I am happy with the results though. All my balls were at a cosistant weight with each other and they looked pretty good. I really enjoyed myself today and started getting into a pretty good rythme. It started to cloud up outside so I shut down the operation. I really look forward to casting tomorrow or sunday if the weather is nice. Respectfully, cowboys1062.

Offline Stormrider51

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Re: My 2nd attempt at casting rounball
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2015, 05:46:44 AM »
Sounds like you are on your way.  Congrats!  Don't worry about the balls being a little light as long as they turn out consistently.  A deer isn't going to know the difference.  If you have micrometer calipers you may find that the balls aren't really .490.  The cherry used to cut the cavity in the blocks wear as they are used and so the cavity they cut gets gradually smaller.  Again, this doesn't matter.  The balls are all the same size.  Have fun and be safe.

John

Offline Daryl

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Re: My 2nd attempt at casting rounball
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2015, 06:11:52 AM »
Exactly- consistency is vital.  A 1 gr. variance is just fine.  Being a little light might mean your alloy is not exactly 99.9% pure lead, or as John noted, the mould might be casting slightly undersize.
For pure lead, mathematically, as shown on my chart, .488" balls (40 gauge) should weigh 175.0gr. and .493" balls (39 gauge), the next size up on my chart, shows 179.5gr.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Don Steele

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Re: My 2nd attempt at casting rounball
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2015, 11:48:46 AM »
You're on the right path. Congratulations.
FWIW: The acceptance criteria I use for my .490 roundballs is 179.5 +/- 0.5 gns.
As John pointed out, your ".490" balls might not be EXACTLY .490.
No matter. Whatever their actual size is, you'll work up a good load by finding the best patch and lube combination to go with them in YOUR rifle.
There always a lot of discussion about weighing balls, acceptance criteria ( how wide of a spread will make a difference), etc.
You'll have to decide what you are happy with. A lot of folks will tell you there's no need to weight them at all 'cause they can't see any difference on their targets.
Some folks will tell you to carefully inspect and weigh every ball, and hold a very tight acceptance range just to eliminate potential shot-to-shot variables .
The beauty of this sport is that at the end of the day..it's up to you...!!!
Cast'em up, and ENJOY. 
Look at the world with a smilin' eye and laugh at the devil as his train rolls by...(Alison Krauss)

Offline snapper

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Re: My 2nd attempt at casting rounball
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2015, 03:37:49 PM »
I leave my full ladle on the top of mold and hold it for 5 seconds.  I feel that the head pressure of the lead in the ladle pushing down on the lead in the mold helps fill out the voids.

Not sure that it helps, but it sure don't hurt.

Fleener
My taste are simple:  I am easily satisfied with the best.  Winston Churchill

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: My 2nd attempt at casting rounball
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2015, 06:02:43 PM »
I leave my full ladle on the top of mold and hold it for 5 seconds.  I feel that the head pressure of the lead in the ladle pushing down on the lead in the mold helps fill out the voids.

Not sure that it helps, but it sure don't hurt.

Fleener

Some time back,I made and marketed heavy (1/4")thick sprue plates for Lyman moulds  and it was reported in a BPCR magazine that they trapped heat and gave a bit heavier bullet and the much sharper cut off in the sprue hole was helpful. I am NOT making any more of these but someone else might try the idea as a home shop project.
I used 1018 and sometimes 0-1 if I had it.

Bob Roller

Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: My 2nd attempt at casting rounball
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2015, 06:05:04 PM »
 I used to do all the things related in this thread, until one day, an old timer came by to visit, while I was casting bullets. He watched for a while, and then asked, if I thought all this meticulous sorting, and weighing, was necessary. I said of course. He said get your gun, and lets go to the range. I took some of my newly cast babies, and he scooped up a handful of my rejects. We shot five six bulls each, from the fifty yard bench. He beat me on every target but one, with my gun, and my reject bullets. He said if you waste all your time at the casting bench, you won't have enough time to shoot enough to get good.
 I now check to see that they are round, not wrinkled, and that the sprue isn't hollow. Thats it, no scales, no worrying about if the balls are lighter than they are supposed to be, or vary too much in weight. Remember the old timers shot balls molded from bag molds that were barely round, often drastically undersized, sometimes made from soap stone, and often didn't close properly. They shot well enough to feed their families, and win a war against the most powerful army on the planet. But they shot virtually every day.

             Hungry Horse

Offline hanshi

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Re: My 2nd attempt at casting rounball
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2015, 08:55:11 PM »
I do the same thing, Hungry Horse.  If they look okay, I keep them.  Never have I been able to tell any difference between the ones simply dropping from the mold and the ones weighed on a scale.  It's a waste of time and I'd rather spend my time shooting.
!Jozai Senjo! "always present on the battlefield"
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.

Offline Daryl

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Re: My 2nd attempt at casting rounball
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2015, 06:33:28 AM »
Couple weeks (3?) ago, Taylor was with me at the range. I was shooting my .45 Longrifle 1/2 stock flinter.  I fired 7 shots using a .0235" ticking patch with  .445" cast balls.
Our targets were set on the rack at 60 yards. Someone had moved the railway rail racks back to that range, for some reason, unknown. Anyway, 2 old guys shooting their ml's thought that was OK. That's where out targets were posted.  I made a 7 shot group, because shot number 4 landed 3 3/4" high of the cloverlead as well as 1/2 " right and # 5 hit 2 3/8" high 4 3/4" right. 6 and 7 went back into the group, making a hole that is .866" wide.  This means THOSE 5 shots make a group of .421" centre to centre- under 1/2", which I've done several times at 50, but not 60 yards.  It's GM barrel is an accurate one.
Now- were those high shots MY fault?  THAT is certainly possible as I was having heat problems and found I had to shoot as soon as the sights came up to the 6 o'clock position, before the bullseye jumped up into the air due to the heat waves rising from my barrel.

Now, I did exactly that for the last 2 shots, 6 and 7 which dropped back into the group.  OR - were those two balls - out of weight ( invisible voids) and that is why they were wild.  That is also quite possible.  Guess we'll never know - for serious competitions, I do think I will continue to weigh the balls - or take my chances- we'll see. Isn't experimentation fun?

If anyone doubts that target, Barry?, I'll give it to Taylor to scan and post. I am having trouble getting my new computer to talk to my camera and scanner.  I'll keep trying, though.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: My 2nd attempt at casting rounball
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2015, 09:06:52 PM »
Nice shooting Daryl. When it comes to target work where 1/4 inch can make a 10 into a 9, I will always weigh the round ball and take the most consistant lot.

Offline Daryl

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Re: My 2nd attempt at casting rounball
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2015, 07:27:23 PM »
Nice shooting Daryl. When it comes to target work where 1/4 inch can make a 10 into a 9, I will always weigh the round ball and take the most consistant lot.

TKS smylee grouch - I was quite happy with those 5 shots, but of course, they were not consecutive.  They do however, show the potential of the gun & load.  Yes for actual  serious work, whether it's RB or Bullet shooting, the weighing of projectiles is vitally important.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline hanshi

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Re: My 2nd attempt at casting rounball
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2015, 10:16:01 PM »
Although I can't do as well now as just a few years ago (cataracts) I have done all my shooting without sorting, regardless of rifle.  At 60 to 75 yards I had many groups that ranged from an inch to an inch and a half with randomly selected balls.  One target I did keep was shot with my Va. flintlock (which I sadly no longer own).  The 60 yard group is 1.25" shot off hand which is better than I can shoot.  No way can I blame the balls I cast and fired unsorted.  I have weighed them before just to see, but they appear to be as or more consistent than bought ones.  I don't shoot formal matches but have won postal matches in the past with my own cast ammo.  Everything I shoot is home cast.
!Jozai Senjo! "always present on the battlefield"
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.