A little help from the experts please

[Bill Ladd]

  So this happened whilst attempting to pin my barrel:




Rushing through slapping it together for the first time since stock finishing, I didn't see that my stock swelled so much taking finish that my tang is being pushed forward:



Two coats Track's aqua fortis followed by twenty hand-rubbed coats of Tru-Oil/BLO and two coats wax:



I'm thinking I need to take material off the end of the tang to get the barrel moved back to seat.

How would you fine fellows handle the busted out forestock?

Thanks in advance 

[Bill Ladd]

Here she is:

(right click and select "view image" for a larger size)

[retired fella]

I have heard that cyanoacrolade modelers glue might help the crack.  As to resetting the tang it would appear that you will have to plug (and glue) the screw holes and reset those as well. 

Question...  if you reseat will you also have to reposition your pins?  If yes can you bed the back of the breach to fit flush?

[EC121]

What diameter are those pins?  Picture makes them look huge.  You can stick the wood down with super thin CA glue, but it is hard to sand once it sets if any overflows.  There are solvents for it that will remove the excess if it occurs.  Might have to refinish that section.

[Ky-Flinter]

Bill,

I agree with the retired fella, if you take metal off the end of the tang, or remove finish/wood from that area to set the barrel back, I believe you will have to reset the tang screws.  If that's what caused the problem, then going that route should bring the pins and holes back into alignment.

But, maybe there's an alternative.  Can you elongate the pin holes in your barrel under-lugs enough that the pins will go thru the original holes in the stock?  If so, you could bed the breech end right where it is now.

Oh, one more thought.  There may be a different, or at least an additional problem.  With that many coats of Tru-Oil you probably need to run a drill thru the pin holes to clear the finish out of them.  That may be part of the problem.

As far as fixing the crack, a lot of the guys like the CA glues, but I just use Elmer's Stainable External wood glue, work it into the cracks from inside the barrel channel with a flat toothpick, put a single piece of newspaper between the wood and the barrel (to keep them from sticking together), clamp it up and wipe off the ooze on the outside with a damp cloth, let dry.

-Ron

[Bill Ladd]

Those are barrel pins I got from Track. They looked huge to me when I got them, but that's what I was sent.

The tang screws are machine screws that go all the way to the trigger plate.  I was having a time getting that to set right as well.  I now think I know why.

The other thing about having my barrel forward a few thousandths is my touchhole no longer lines up.  Not sure if it'll be enough to be a problem though.

I'm going to study this carefully before I make any moves.  I will report here for advice as i proceed.

Thanks a bunch for the input so far!

[brokenflint]

I'm agreeing with Kyflinter here, elongate those holes in your barrel lugs to allow for expansion and contraction of the wood before you make any wood repairs.  Test how the fit works with the elongation and see if there is any relaxing of the damage / or if you can press the damage back together with you fingers or small rubber jaw clamp. 

Brokenflint

[EC121]

In this case wood glue is probably a better option.  CA will set faster than you can clamp the wood.

[Ky-Flinter]

Bill,

Don't worry about the touchhole.  It can't be that far off.  It's still between the 2 edges of the pan, right?

-Ron

[smallpatch]

First of all, never use the pins that TOW sells.  Use 1/16" or 5/64 pins.  Music wire from hobby shop.
Second, it's way too late to be moving barrels around. If you do, you'll have to refinish the whole stock.

If this is your first.... Lessons learned.  We all did.

As far as the crack..... There is a reason for it.  Fix that before you repair the crack.  Possibly the under lug is too long, pushing against the wood when you drove the pin in? Or possibly too much finish behind the tang is pushing the barrel forward.  Try cleaning that out, and see if the barrel doesn't move back.  Do not take material off the tang. It will only make matters worse.

Touch hole.... Not a big issue. It will work fine.

[Bill Ladd]

Bill,

Don't worry about the touchhole.  It can't be that far off.  It's still between the 2 edges of the pan, right?

-Ron

Yes, it is. Thanks.

[moleeyes36]

Bill,

I agree with the retired fella, if you take metal off the end of the tang, or remove finish/wood from that area to set the barrel back, I believe you will have to reset the tang screws.  If that's what caused the problem, then going that route should bring the pins and holes back into alignment.

But, maybe there's an alternative.  Can you elongate the pin holes in your barrel under-lugs enough that the pins will go thru the original holes in the stock?  If so, you could bed the breech end right where it is now.

Oh, one more thought.  There may be a different, or at least an additional problem.  With that many coats of Tru-Oil you probably need to run a drill thru the pin holes to clear the finish out of them.  That may be part of the problem.

As far as fixing the crack, a lot of the guys like the CA glues, but I just use Elmer's Stainable External wood glue, work it into the cracks from inside the barrel channel with a flat toothpick, put a single piece of newspaper between the wood and the barrel (to keep them from sticking together), clamp it up and wipe off the ooze on the outside with a damp cloth, let dry.

-Ron

I'm in this camp also.  Try elongating the holes and gluing up from the inside with Elmer's, not CA glues.  A good way to clamp it up is to take some transparent packing tape and put single layer around the stock to protect the finish and allow you to see how much you're drawing the crack closed as you clamp it.  I've found slotted, adjustable hose clamps from the auto parts store are great for slipping around the stock and barrel and tightening up as needed.  The transparent packing tape is pretty tough and thick so it should protect the finish.

On your next build, you might think about using 1/16" music wire or thin finishing nails for pins.  Plenty strong enough and used by many builders.

Mole Eyes

[Bill Ladd]

smallpatch - I believe the barrel being a smidge too far up is what caused it to crack (the pin, being offset a tad, lifted that big splinter).

Definitely lessons learned for the next one!

I'll get it all settled and I'm pretty dang stoked about how my first one looks so far.

Thanks again all for the advice.

Bill

[Bill Ladd]

Thanks moleeyes36.  I aggree. I'm afraid the superglues that I have will set up much too fast.

Just so everyone knows, the first picture is showing a large splinter that has lifted.  The entire forestock has not cracked through.

I could actually tear it out to begin the artificial aging process!! (but I won't)

[Bill Ladd]

Oh, wait.  So as long as my touch hole is between the pan I'll be okay?

Heck, if that's the case I'll just bed the barrel where it is and call it a day!

Thanks again good folks!

[moleeyes36]

Thanks moleeyes36.  I aggree. I'm afraid the superglues that I have will set up much too fast.

Just so everyone knows, the first picture is showing a large splinter that has lifted.  The entire forestock has not cracked through.

I could actually tear it out to begin the artificial aging process!! (but I won't)

The real aging process begins with staining from tears when you get the first really bad gouge in it when you're out hunting with it.  The tears begin right after the primal scream stops echoing through the woods. 

Mole Eyes

[Mark Elliott]

In my opinion, cracks are best fixed with thin CA.   I would camp the crack closed, apply the thin CA and let it be sucked into the crack by capillary action.   Using any other glue,  you must open up the crack to get the glue in everywhere.   After the glue as dried, you will need to drill the holes a littler larger.   Remember that you should never have to force anything.   Pins should just be tight enough to stay in place.  

[EC121]

As far as the touch hole, anywhere in the pan will work.  I have taken a Dremel tool and ground the pan out a bit larger.  As long as the frizzen covers the pan and the cut doesn't go below the side flat, all is good.  That could be plan B if it bothers you.

[kaintuck]

In my opinion, cracks are best fixed with thin CA.   I would camp the crack closed, apply the thin CA and let it be sucked into the crack by capillary action.   Using any other glue,  you must open up the crack to get the glue in everywhere.   After the glue as dried, you will need to drill the holes a littler larger.   Remember that you should never have to force anything.   Pins should just be tight enough to stay in place.  

X2 on tomtoms opinion
Loading a tight patched ball is the ONLY thing that should be forced in flintlocks!

Marc

[Mark Elliott]

In my opinion, cracks are best fixed with thin CA.   I would camp the crack closed, apply the thin CA and let it be sucked into the crack by capillary action.   Using any other glue,  you must open up the crack to get the glue in everywhere.   After the glue as dried, you will need to drill the holes a littler larger.   Remember that you should never have to force anything.   Pins should just be tight enough to stay in place.  

X2 on tomtoms opinion
Loading a tight patched ball is the ONLY thing that should be forced in flintlocks!

Marc

I am glad Tomtom agrees. 

[kaintuck]

In my opinion, cracks are best fixed with thin CA.   I would camp the crack closed, apply the thin CA and let it be sucked into the crack by capillary action.   Using any other glue,  you must open up the crack to get the glue in everywhere.   After the glue as dried, you will need to drill the holes a littler larger.   Remember that you should never have to force anything.   Pins should just be tight enough to stay in place.  

X2 on tomtoms opinion
Loading a tight patched ball is the ONLY thing that should be forced in flintlocks!

Marc

I am glad Tomtom agrees. 

I KNOW he's smart mark-----he has his own house, bed and food....and never works a day in his life~ lays around looking out his window, from a padded rest!!!
 
marc

[rsells]

I finish my stock while attached to the barrel, but take it apart to seal the barrel grove and finish the surface of the metal.  It is not uncommon, especially in high humidity conditions to not be able to reassemble the rifle if it is hot and humid like it is here in TN now.  So, my normal mode of operation is to make the pin holes in the lugs actually slots so the barrel and stock can actually move back and forth without causing fit issues due to temperature and humidity changes or changing the point of impact when the barrel heats up when shooting.  I normally leave the hole in the lug closest to the breech round to insure the breech location stays as inlet, and slot the other three lugs from the second from breech to the muzzle.  It is amazing how much longer the wood will get when humidity changes in my part of the world this time of year with a 44 or longer barrels.  I still get mad doing the work, but it saves issues when reassembly time comes around.  I seal the open end  areas under the  butt plate and breech area when inlet to try as best to not have the fit change in these areas during the build.  Still it can creap up on me now and again.  Bummer!!  Just part of fighting a build to the very end to get the rifle finished.  Good luck.
                                                                                                 Roger Sells

[Pete G.]

Don't forget to grind a slight taper on the end of the pin. That will make the pin find the hole a little easier. A 3p finishing nail or even a short piece of coat hanger wire will make a little better pin on your next build. Those pins that TOW supplies are really too large for that application, plus they are hardened. They are perfect for trigger pins though.

[54ball]

 Could this have been caused by too much finish in the barrel channel, tang mortice, and trigger mortice? All  of that combined may have caused the misalignment instead of just humility or the stock absorbing the finish.

 If it were mine I would take it back apart and look. Maybe by cleaning that up it will go back together in alignment. 

[Bill Ladd]

Could this have been caused by too much finish in the barrel channel, tang mortice, and trigger mortice? All  of that combined may have caused the misalignment instead of just humility or the stock absorbing the finish.

 If it were mine I would take it back apart and look. Maybe by cleaning that up it will go back together in alignment. 

I already did that and got it all sorted out. Thanks 54ball.