Author Topic: Looking for a file  (Read 8268 times)

Offline Gun_Nut_73

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Looking for a file
« on: July 23, 2015, 10:04:56 PM »
Many years ago, my grandfather was showing me some of his tools, and was trying to explain how to cut dovetails in wood.  One of his tools was a 3-corner file with one flat or "safe" edge that he used to clean and widen a dovetail without cutting the bottom any deeper.  I have never seen another one of these.  Does anyone know what the proper name of this type of file is?  It is possible my grandfather made it himself by milling the teeth off one flat, in which case I would like to know how can I grind the teeth off one side of a 3-corner file without a milling machine.

Thanks in advance

docone

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Re: Looking for a file
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2015, 10:32:05 PM »
You get a tri corner file, and grind or sand off one side.
Keep the heat down. If you can, try to find a file that is not tapered.

Offline PPatch

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Re: Looking for a file
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2015, 10:40:45 PM »
What docone said, you simply dull one side of the tri-corner file. I use a bench grinder very carefully in order to not over heat the file. Frequent dunkings in water will aid in keeping it from getting too hot.

Dovetails: Here is the best video on creating dovetails I have ever seen:

The thing with dovetails is practice practice practice. You have to build your skill and confidence before putting that saw to an actual project. They are not that difficult once you understand the cuts, and you won't need a file to refine the cuts, a very sharp parting chisel is all that is needed.

dave
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Offline Mikeh

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Re: Looking for a file
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2015, 11:47:41 PM »
Brownell's has dovetail files, one side safe. A little pricey though.
Mikeh

Offline smallpatch

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Re: Looking for a file
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2015, 12:09:16 AM »
A filed off three corner will NOT give a clean corner.  Not sharp enough. Buy one from Brownells.  Worth every penny.
In His grip,

Dane

Offline Gun_Nut_73

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Re: Looking for a file
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2015, 01:41:08 AM »
Many thanks for the replies.  I will check Brownells.

PS: I see what you mean by pricey.

Offline Pete G.

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Re: Looking for a file
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2015, 01:44:53 AM »
You can grind off the side of a regular 3 corner, and it will work after a sorts, but the Brownell's file is not tapered, which helps to cut a straighter dovetail.  You can either buy the good one from them, of buy several from the hardware store and modify them, but the file that Brownell's handles will outlast a bunch of hardware store files. While you"re at it, get them to throw in a 8" pillar file; you won't regret it. They may cost more initially, but if you are going to use them very much they are a better deal in the long run.  Personally, I don't have enough money to buy cheap tools.

Incidentally Midwayusa also handles high quality gunsmithing tools.

Offline jerrywh

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Re: Looking for a file
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2015, 02:06:48 AM »
 If you grind off one side of a three cornered file and it don't have a sharp enough corner just grind off some more on the safe side.  Another tip is this-- after you grind off the safe side sand id with 400 grit. do this on all safe files and they won't scratch up the surface you don't want to file. Good American made files like Nicolson are as quality as any but not the Chinese ones. 
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Offline kutter

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Re: Looking for a file
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2015, 06:53:09 AM »
Instead of of grinder/grinding wheel to remove the material to make the safe edge,,do it on a belt grinder.
A grinding wheel & free-hand operation usually results in an uneven surface as there's no backer (platten) and most shop grinding wheels are less than perfectly flat anyway with grooves and ridges in them.
 
 Even a hand held  belt sander mounter upside down in the bench vise and switched on makes a usable belt grinder for such tasks. Even they have a sheet metal platten on the bottom or you can use the end roller to grind off of.
As with any grinder/sander,,,Careful with orientation of belt drive direction and which way you're holding the piece being worked on.

With a fairly rough grit belt (150/180,,) it'll remove material quickly without heating up the piece real fast.
It cuts nice and smooth as you drag it back accross the supported belt. Do it with the right amt of pressure and speed with each stroke, and you don't even heat the work piece up enough to worry about dunking it in water.,,but it's a good idea to keep a water can handy anyway!

Once the major work is done,,switch to a fine cut belt if you want to give the surface a nicer finish. A couple of swipes will do it.
Cut the safe edge of the tri-square file down far enough to give yourself a real sharp corner edge on each side. That'll cut a sharp edged dovetail w/no  blunt corner.

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Looking for a file
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2015, 03:06:09 PM »
Brownell's has dovetail files, one side safe. A little pricey though.

If they are quality files from England,Germany or Switzerland or MAYBE the USA then they are
well worth the price because you will never have to buy it twice.
Quality tools are a treasure and when you see how weak our currency has become they are a bargain.

Bob Roller

Offline Ryan McNabb

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Re: Looking for a file
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2015, 03:23:20 PM »
I tried one of those Brownells files and found the teeth too fine for my tastes.  I have a safe edge file I ground odd about 15 years ago and it works fine.  If you work on your skills simple tools are perfectly fine.  Bump dovetails out with a cold chisel. 

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Offline PPatch

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Re: Looking for a file
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2015, 04:28:28 PM »
Brownell's has dovetail files, one side safe. A little pricey though.

If they are quality files from England,Germany or Switzerland or MAYBE the USA then they are
well worth the price because you will never have to buy it twice.
Quality tools are a treasure and when you see how weak our currency has become they are a bargain.

Bob Roller

Agree 100%!

dave
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Offline T*O*F

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Re: Looking for a file
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2015, 05:07:19 PM »
Quote
I tried one of those Brownells files and found the teeth too fine for my tastes.
A couple of FYI's:
1.  Brownells sells both coarse and fine cut dovetail files.
2.  They only have ONE cutting side, both the other two are safe.
Dave Kanger

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Offline Mark Elliott

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Re: Looking for a file
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2015, 10:22:47 AM »
Many thanks for the replies.  I will check Brownells.

PS: I see what you mean by pricey.

Barrel steel is soft and the files last a long time.   I have one I have been using for a few years, and a spare when I need it.    The last I checked they were not as expensive as Nicholson Pattern Maker's rasps and I have gone through a couple of those to one sight base file.   Also,  if you register with Brownells as a professional gunsmith, you pay the wholesale price which is often considerably less than the retail price on the web site or in the printed catalog.   If you PM me,  I will tell you my price for the file.

I should mention that I only use a #2 cut sight base file to clean up the slot and cut the actual dovetail which is quite tiny in my slots which finish at about .040".   I remove most of the metal with a hacksaw (using a 14tpi bi-metal blade with a stop I made), a 1/8" flat die sinker chisel, and a 3/8" square bastard file.  I lift the edge of the slot with a specially ground cold chisel.  None of the tools get a lot of use on each slot.

« Last Edit: July 26, 2015, 10:39:12 AM by Mark Elliott »

Offline Stophel

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Re: Looking for a file
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2015, 10:22:52 PM »
  Good American made files like Nicolson are as quality as any...

Unfortunately, those aren't around anymore, unless you stumble upon an old hardware store that has some old stock on hand.... and if you do, buy them ALL now while you can!!!!   The new ones are made in Mexico (apparently, some are from Brazil too), and they suck pretty badly.  Really, really badly.  Chinese files are better.

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Offline Mark Elliott

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Re: Looking for a file
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2015, 11:14:36 PM »
Except for the Nicholson Pattern Maker's rasps,  I try to buy Grobet files.   The seem to keep a good edge a long time.  The Grobet Habilis files are my primary files for final shaping.  I get the #1 cut Habilis set.    Brownells sells some pretty good Chinese made needle files.   I buy #2 cut needle files and use them for fine work and for finishing. 

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Looking for a file
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2015, 11:23:08 PM »
Except for the Nicholson Pattern Maker's rasps,  I try to buy Grobet files.   The seem to keep a good edge a long time.  The Grobet Habilis files are my primary files for final shaping.  I get the #1 cut Habilis set.    Brownells sells some pretty good Chinese made needle files.   I buy #2 cut needle files and use them for fine work and for finishing. 

I have to agree with the opinion stated on the "Nicholson" files from Mexico and Brazil. Sad thing to see
old American names and tools degraded like that.I have bought a few Chinese fies from Harbor Freight and they cut well at first but are not durable. I still have some old American Nicholsons and others that are still good and use them sparingly. I have some fine German Pferd files and a set of miniature files from China I bought new for $9 and they are indispensable to my lock work along with a set of miniature Pferd from Germany that cost over $100 in 1980.

Bob Roller

Offline dogcatcher

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Re: Looking for a file
« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2015, 03:43:55 AM »
If you have the better brands of files you might consider using the services of this company to sharpen them.  http://boggstool.com/

I realize this is my first post on this forum, but I am a duck callmaker and we use files to shape the toneboards.  When doing this we are filing across hardened steel jigs that "kill" files awful fast.  I was skeptical when someone else posted the link, but I did try Boggs Tool, I was surprised and have used them twice since.  The price is better than new files.

Offline Mark Elliott

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Re: Looking for a file
« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2015, 06:40:11 AM »
I have started to use Boggs to sharpen files and they do a good job for not much money.  Even the rejected files cut better than some new files.  I have not sent small files (needle files and similar) to them yet.   Have others had good results sending stuff like Swiss number 1 and 2 cut files to Boggs for sharpening?