"Kiser Rifle"

[Hurricane ( of Virginia)]

Perhaps some of you missed the discussion on the "Antique" board about this rifle. It was sold, though misrepresent as antique, for $3000. I am wondering what any of you would charge to make a similar rifle today. I think this purchaser got at least a fair to even good deal based "artisitic merit."
Was it a good deal? Great deal  ??  by todays contemporary makers standards. What would it cost to make today?

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=497260600

Hurricane

[Mark Elliott]

Fred,  

I can't/won't make a rifle for someone else for less than $6000.   That is for a plain, fully brass mounted, right-hand flint rifle with a moderately curly red maple stock.   Most of my iron mounted guns (my particular niche) are mid-$6000s.   A carved and engraved rifle is going to be mid-$8000s.    Those prices are no indication of how good I think I am.   They are the prices I must charge in order to make a living where I live.   They also represent an opportunity cost; in other words,  the price I must get in order to build a rifle as opposed to doing something else for a living.  I am fortunate in that I can and have done a number of things for a living.   If I make a gun for less this this, then it is by definition, a hobby.  

Again,  these prices have nothing to do with artistic merit or craftsmanship.  I am well aware there are a lot of people who do better work than me, and most of them lurk here.   The prices I quoted are purely about economic reality.    It takes so many hours to build a rifle, and I need to make so much an hour in order to pay my bills.  Other's circumstances may be different; meaning that their economics are different.   However,  from what I can gather, these prices are in line with what the real professional builders charge.  

I am not sure if you are asking what it would cost to make an as new rifle like the Kiser or a similar rifle that looks like an antique.  I only know two or three contemporary builders who could make a new rifle of the decorative level of the Kiser rifle and make it look like an actual antique.   I believe they would charge five figures for such a rifle.   Although,  they would do a better job

While I feel the rifle in question has artistic merit,  I feel the craftsmanship is not up to the level of the best work being done today.    Actually, I know at least a half dozen builders who would make you a better rifle of the same artistic level for less than $10,000.  Some would charge more, but a good number would do it for less.      
 
I have answered your question fully and frankly.   I hope I don't end up regretting it.

[Hungry Horse]

 That kind of money for a misrepresented antique, with a broken stock, and lock. I'd have a legal weasel on them in no notes. The gun look pretty heavily used. I wouldn't pay more than about a grand for it.

     Hungry Horse

[Lucky R A]

Fred,
        I build a dozen or more rifles a year, plus some restoration work.  I would the artistic merit of the rifle on a scale of 1-10 to be less than a 5 by todays standards.  When this rifle was built there was so very much less information available than there is today, and the rifle might have been regarded  a standout at that time.  Today the carving and engraving would be considered rather pedestrian.  To re-create the rifle today at the cost of new parts etc. and to today's standards the cost would exceed the selling price, by close to $1000.   
         I agree that the gavel price for the gun was way high.  I can only guess that there were two buyers that had some sentimental attachment to the rifle and/or maker.   Had the rifle been in pristine condition, it might have  come close to the price paid, but this rifle has seen a lot of miles and not all the roads were paved. 

Ron

[Mark Elliott]

If I were to comment on the value of the Kiser rifle,  I would have to say that I don't find it appealing enough to want to give you anything for it, even if I had it to give.  However, that is just a matter of taste and interest.  Assuming I had it to spend, I would spend that kind of money on an intact, attic-condition, plain, iron-mounted rifle,  but that is where my interest lies.   I have photographed a Bean for which I would pay many times $3000,  if I had the money and the opportunity.   I see craftsmanship in different places.   Personally,  I see precious little craftsmanship in the Kiser, and it is broken in pieces.    

[Hurricane ( of Virginia)]

Thank you guys for the lesson....I appreciated the lesser quality of engraving and the use...still found it attrqctive. I still have a lot to learn..sincere thanks, always refreshing.
Hurricane

[Mike Brooks]

That's a pretty busy rifle, lots of carving, engraving, brass box. None of it attractively executed   to me , although I'd assume it was built in the 70's so some latitude has to be given for craftsmanship and design  because of that. I'd want $3800 give or take a couple hundred for a rifle decorated to that level... (I can live cheaper than Mark because I grow my own tobacco and roll my own cigars....life is much cheaper that way ) I'd not want to "repop" that particular rifle though, and would turn down the job if that were one of the requirements.