Inletting a patchbox?

[Tenn Hills Guy]

What's your method to do the inletting? I have an 'eagle' fairly complex and wondering whether to use my hacksaw chisels, or exacto to start. My stock is maple ...if that matters.  Bill

[greybeard]

 I  cant imagine using a hacksaw to inlet  a fancy patch box . How ever a variety of SHARP chisels would be my choice. Good luck with your progress.
    Bob

[Tenn Hills Guy]

I use old hacksaw blades cut-off in about 4" sections. They are ground down to widths of from 1/16" to maybe 1/2" . Primarily, I use them for inlaying silver wire.

[greybeard]

Ah yes! That makes sense!  Bob

[Mark Elliott]

I assume you are talking about the finial and side pieces, perhaps pierced.   I use my stamping tool and very small chisels and gouges for that.   It sounds like your wire inletting tools would be good for stamping in the outline.   You are still going to need some small chisels to get the wood out.   I have a couple 2-3mm gouges and flat chisels as well as a 3/32" morticing chisel that is good for such things.  

As to the box.  I drill that out first with a antique spur bit and brace.  Then I clean it up with a 1 1/4" bench chisel.   It is a an antique Marples and is VERY sharp.  

If you are leaving narrow sections of wood for the piercings,  you may want to remove the adjacent wood with a parting "V" tool BEFORE stamping in the outline.   I can't tell you how much wood I have broken out by not doing this.  I recently read of this procedure in a turn of the 20th century wood carving manual.    The general carving (inletting) procedure is; 1 - outline the pattern/design with a parting "V" tool, removing the background/inlet wood ALMOST up to the outline of the design;  2 - stamp in the outline of the design; 3 - remove the wood up to the stamped outline; 4 - model the carved design (for carving, not inlets  ).  This is not exactly the procedure I was taught in class, but experience has taught me that it is the best procedure.  

[David Rase]

Here is the method I try to follow.
1. Cut out the wood for the hinge.
2. Bend, tweak, shape and form the patchbox to fit the contour of the buttstock.  This is an important step that usually takes me a good hour to get it just right.
3. Screw the patchbox finial down to the stock.
4. Draw around the edges and any piercings with a SHARP pencil.
5. Remove the patchbox finial.
6.  Using a 1/16" drill bit with a depth stop set to the thickness of the patchbox sheet metal, pepper the areas where you are going to remove wood.  These holes act as depth guides to allow you to remove wood to the proper depth.  Not too deep where you have depressions in the metal and not too shallow where you end up filing the metal too thin to get a proper contour.
7. Remove wood inside your pencil lines making sure to leave the lines.  Us the holes you drilled in step 6 to show you when to stop digging.
8. Remove the pencil lines by erasing or light sanding. 
9. Now you have a choice depending upon how you feel.  You can either: 
     A.  Screw the patchbox finial back into place and trace around it with a sharp X-acto knife or
     B.  Apply inletting black or soot to the back side of the finial, screw it back into place and then tap the edges lightly with some kind of mallet, I use a rawhide mallet.
10. Remove the patch box and trim away the remaining wood if you used the X-acto knife method, or use tools to stab in the outling left from the soot or inletting black.  Be careful not to force thins as you risk popping out wood during removal.
11. Repeat steps 9 and 10 as needed to get a good level fit. 
12. If the box has finials, you can basically the same thing to inlet them.
13. I have inlet the lid several different ways as well:
     A. Start closing the lid a bit at a time marking the edges with the X-acto knife.  Continue closing and removing wood until the lid seats at the rear of the buttstock.
     B. Loosen the screws in the finial until the lid lays flat on the stock and scribe a line on each side of the lid.  Remove wood until seated.

Lots of ways to skin this cat.  I am sure I do it a bit different every time since I don't write down how I do things very often.   
David

[kaintuck]

see....just send it over to Dave.....

he'll do it and send it back.....................ahahahahahah

tomtom and I do it Dave's way, and just enjoy the time spent, never hurry~cause this part will show up more than anypart of the rifle when done badly......

marc n tomtom

[smylee grouch]

To start, you might want to put a little draft on the edge of the box itself.

[flehto]

After all the parts have been formed and are ready for inletting, I start w/ the finial and screw it down using only the center screw hole. .. but,  before doing this, relief has to be chiseled for the hinge.  Then the Exacto knife is used w/ 2 blades...one has a small radius and does most of the outlining and the second blade is left pointed  and is used to outline the inside corners.  I then chisel  to depth a relief all around to the outlined cut and.then the inside wood is chiseled and the edge of the inlet is cut away as the spotting compound indicates  until the finial is to depth....which is perhaps a few .001s of the finial being proud.  The outboard screws are then installed.

The out line of the lid is penciled in and the cavity is "hoogled out" to depth and then the lid is inlet until it rests on the Bplate  cutout ....the width of the lid inlet isn't fussy because the sideplates will cover up if too wide.

The sideplates are aligned by "eyeball" and  screwed down using all the screw holes  and I encroach on the lid width by a few .001s which ensures a close fit  between the sideplate and lid when filed in for fit later on.  Again the Exacto knife is used w/ the 2 blades. The sideplates are inletted to depth along w/ the edges as indicated by the spotting compound,  being aware of the screwhole locations in the sideplate and the screwholes in the wood.  The sideplate depth is proud of the wood and Bplate by a few .001s.  

There's more to do when inletting a Pbox, especially if piercings are to be done and there are some "how to" books that should be studied....This is "my way" of inletting a Pbox....but, I imagine many other ways also "get the job done" equally as well......Fred
    

[Tenn Hills Guy]

Some good ideas here!  I did one years ago that came out pretty well, not as complicated.....but remembering how I did it.........not.  I've been building a Dave Waters design swivel breech and down to the finishing stages....finally!

[Mark Elliott]

Some good ideas here!  I did one years ago that came out pretty well, not as complicated.....but remembering how I did it.........not.  I've been building a Dave Waters design swivel breech and down to the finishing stages....finally!

I forget how I have done things also.   Isn't that just terrible.     Of course,  if I was doing it wrong,  that could be a good thing. 

[Mike Brooks]

I don't have an exacto knife in my shop, never figured out a use for one. I stab in all my inletting with a  chisel with the appropriate sweep.
 Screw down the box, then draw around it  with a pencil. Remove box. Stab in chisels staying inside the line. remove wood untill the box fits. Easy peasy. I inlet everything this way.

[flehto]

For a "professional" gunbuilder having an array of "stab in" chisels makes a lot of sense, but for the "average Joe builder", these stab in chisels are a waste of time and expense seeing quite a few are req'd  for the various contours. So....I use the less expensive Exacto knives in lieu of all the stab in chisels that would be req'd for my occasional builds. Your perspective and methods on gunbuilding are quite different than mine....I don't need the money so don't have to be as efficient  a gunbuilder such as you. My gunbuilding is "casual" to say the least. I admire your work and short delivery times...shows a rare talent and efficiency that probably makes you the "fastest builder" bar none......Fred

[Mark Elliott]

There is nothing wrong with X-acto knives.   I think I have every model they make, but I don't use them for gun work.   I use them for art work and framing.   I find them too light weight (flexible)  for gun work.   

I do use the smallest, pen type, X-acto blade handle with the tiny die cutting blades (for cutting screen print masks) for engraving powder horns. 

[bob in the woods]

I use my violin makers knives. Great quality steel, and best of all,  I already had them.

[Mike Brooks]

For a "professional" gunbuilder having an array of "stab in" chisels makes a lot of sense, but for the "average Joe builder", these stab in chisels are a waste of time and expense seeing quite a few are req'd  for the various contours. So....I use the less expensive Exacto knives in lieu of all the stab in chisels that would be req'd for my occasional builds. Your perspective and methods on gunbuilding are quite different than mine....I don't need the money so don't have to be as efficient  a gunbuilder such as you. My gunbuilding is "casual" to say the least. I admire your work and short delivery times...shows a rare talent and efficiency that probably makes you the "fastest builder" bar none......Fred

I understand. I have a whole pile of german made sweeps and gouges that I bought 30 years ago and sunk alot of money in them....back when gunbuilding was a hobby and I had a real job. But, I actually only use three. Sure wish I would have know which three to buy, could have saved alot of money.