Please convince me one way or the other.

[aprayinbear]

To all you folks much with more experienced then myself,

I'm about to begin a Tenn/Southern rifle build.  (I've built a Caywood and a GPR, but most of the work is done for you with those "kits".) I've purchased my barrel, a Rice .40 caliber 13/16 straight.  I want to use a Davis Late English Lock, and double trigger, but I'm stuck on the stock.

My problem is, A) purchase a shaped stock with only barrel and ramrod inlet, or B) start from scratch with a stock blank.  I'm afraid that I'll have trouble "carving the butt stock and wrist.  I have a lot of woodworking experience, but little carving (shaping) experience.  I've read a lot of the posts here and other places about the problems with pre-inlet triggers and lock mortises, so I'm just looking for Southern style shaping and barrel and ramrod inlet.

I'd like to say "its all good, because we learn as we go", but this is probably a once in a lifetime opportunity, so I don't want to regret my choice.

Please help me decide

[David R. Pennington]

Use a plank. Draw it out on paper and do it. Get a good book or two and take your time. My first build was from a raw blank.

[Long Ears]

Look up Knob Mountain Muzzleloaders, Dave Keck is the owner and he offers a southern rifle profile. He will inlet the barrel and drill the ramrod hole. He also offers a service to profile the butt stock. This helps a lot with the build and you still have control of the lock position, trigger placement and all of the fore end profiling. Dave is busy so expect to wait for it. Pecatonica River also does this, just have them omit the lock work. Good luck, Bob

[Ky-Flinter]

First off, welcome to ALR.  Good to have another new builder join our ranks.

If I were you, I would go with a pre-shaped stock with only the barrel and ramrod inlet.  There will still be a good deal of shaping/wood removal to be done, but the basic architecture will be laid out for you.  Gain some experience with this one, and consider building the next one from a blank.

Years ago I built my first ML rifle with a Tennessee Classic pre-carve from Pecatonica and it went well.  I had them inlet for the lock, and I had to move the barrel back about an 1/8 of an inch to get the touch-hole and the pan to line up, but that was no problem since I was using a straight barrel, as you are.

Good luck with your build, check in with questions and let us see your progress.

-Ron

[smylee grouch]

In your situation I think Long Ears has the right idea. I have used Dave's stocks with just the barrel and RR hole done and have had good luck with him. Good luck and have fun.

[P.W.Berkuta]

I totally agree with Long Ears & Ky-Flinter

Long Ears said "Dave Keck is the owner and he offers a southern rifle profile. He will inlet the barrel and drill the ramrod hole. He also offers a service to profile the butt stock."
 
and Ky-Flinter said "I would go with a pre-shaped stock with only the barrel and ramrod inlet.  There will still be a good deal of shaping/wood removal to be done, but the basic architecture will be laid out for you."

This advice is "SPOT ON" and would be right for most neophyte rifle builders -and some of the rest of us also

[Mark Elliott]

If this is really a once in a life time project, then I would say go with a pre-shaped stock from Knob Mountain. 

However, the best solution is to get someone to help YOU make this from a blank with hand forged mounts.   If you live near me,  I would be tickled to death to help you with this project.   However, I would make you work harder than you probably ever imagined,  just not all at once.

I live in Mechanicsville, VA.   

[greybeard]

Knob Mountain !!!!!!
     Bob

[whitebear]

If you don't have them get "Recreating the American Longrifle"and ether edition of "The gunsmith of Grenville County".  Read them look at the pictures then reread both of them at least twice more, you will find things that you didn't see every time you read them.  Then ask lots of questions and then decide what you want to do.

[J. Talbert]

I agree that the pre shaped option is a good one, but if you have a nearby mentor to help you with the shaping it may not be as hard as you think.

For me, shaping is all about using the landmarks that are there to guide you.  Nothing is automatic, but if there's someone there to steer you it's not so bad.

The lock panels flow from the shape of the lock.  The butt stock shape comes from the side profile and the shape of the butt plate.
The entry thimble will guide you around that transition point...

And the mentor is there to tell you to, "Take more wood off!"   

Oh ya,  You'll need a Nicholson # 49  or something like it.

Just another option,
Jeff

[Mark Elliott]

And the mentor is there to tell you to, "Take more wood off!"   

Oh ya,  You'll need a Nicholson # 49  or something like it.

Just another option,
Jeff

That was my idea.   I would sit there like Yoda, point, and dispense sparse, inscrutable instructions.       The Nicholson #49 and #50 is indispensable, but a drawknife and large gouge are good for removing a lot of wood fast.   That is, if you are stocking from a blank.  Otherwise, the #49 and #50 will do.

[bob in the woods]

I'm addicted to my spoke shaves. They have almost [ but not completely] replaced the #49 and 50

[whetrock]

If you don't have them get "Recreating the American Longrifle"and ether edition of "The gunsmith of Grenville County".  Read them look at the pictures then reread both of them at least twice more, you will find things that you didn't see every time you read them.  Then ask lots of questions and then decide what you want to do.

Yeah, those are helpful books. Great books even.  But if you are building a TN mnt, you will want to study some (a lot, all you can get...) good photos of the style/school.  Far too many contemporary "TN mountain" rifles probably start out okay, but end up leaving the bench looking like an odd hybrid of TN and Pennsylvania.  I'm guessing that happens when people are wanting TN, but don't have a clear enough mental image of what that means, and then end up following Buchele and Alexander's instructions too closely.  I really think drawing up a good plan, and following it carefully, is one of the most important things you can do. The lock panels on a properly made Bean, for example, are nothing like anything that ever came out of Pennsylvania.

PS: One more tip:  Study antiques. Only study antiques.


 

[Dennis Glazener]

I will join in on buying or having someone duplicate a stock pattern that does not have the lock/tang/trigger plate pre-inlet. Many companies sell their stocks that way or you can have someone like Mark Weader, Dave Keck, Dave Rase and many others that I am not real familiar with, duplicate a pattern that you like.

This type of stock allows you to make your own decision on where the lock/touch hole, triggers etc are to be placed.
Dennis

[Long Ears]

Does Dave Rase offer profiling now? I thought he only did a fantastic job with the barrel and ramrod hole. Good to know. Thanks Dennis, Bob

[Dennis Glazener]

Opps, I hope I didn't speak out in error. Better check with Dave. I know he is able but he may not be doing full patterns due to other work.
Dennis

[Barngunguy]

Newbie advice, if thats possible.
I have a precarve from dave keck.
very nicely done and spot on.
problem im having is, not much room
for errors. Theres wood there, but if you
make a mistake youll spend the next 2 weeks
trying to fix it.
ask if he could leave a little bit more wood on
is my advice.

[Long Ears]

I've never had that issue with Dave's profiles.  There is plenty of wood extra. It gives you a great shape to start with. Lots of rasping room. Bob

[coutios]

   If your honest about your skillset.. That will guide you in the right direction.. I've seen first guns from  both the blank and pre carve that are perfect in every way. I have also seen many of both that end up in the fireplace...
Just pick the one your comfortable with and have at it....

Regards
Dave

[aprayinbear]

Thanks to everyone!

Thanks for all your generous thoughts and suggestions.  I've finally decided to order a pre-shaped stock with only the barrel and ramrod channel inlet.  I'm sure there will still be lots of fun and challenges in the build.  My goal is to build a nice looking, accurate and functional firearm that falls generally into the "Southern" style.  And by making some of the parts and details, I think I can make my own.  I'll post pics as I go along.

Aprayinbear

[Mike Brooks]

Newbie advice, if thats possible.
I have a precarve from dave keck.
very nicely done and spot on.
problem im having is, not much room
for errors. Theres wood there, but if you
make a mistake youll spend the next 2 weeks
trying to fix it.
ask if he could leave a little bit more wood on
is my advice.

Actually that sounds pretty good to me. I always wonder what advantage the pre carve is if you have to take tons of wood off of it. Might as well use a blank. Seems to take about the same amount of time to shape the stock either way.

[Meteorman]

I vote stock blank. 
Beg borrow or (don't) steal a good profile pattern.
Have someone do the barrel and RR hole only.
From there, you can get to "pre-carve shape" from a blank in a day or two if you havel a band saw and the usual hand tools.  ... And viola you just saved $100 or more.
Passable to good shaping is attainable once you get the profile right, provided you have a model or plenty of pictures to help.
Go slow, post pics here and ask questions, and you can get from passable to pretty darn good if your patient and deliberate.
And then you'll be proud you started with a plank.

[WadePatton]

I agree fully with Meteor Man.

Exactly what I did.  Puts a lot more of YOU into your gun and is priceless learning opportunity if you ever want to build another.  

[B.Barker]

Get a plank with the barrel and rod inlet and sign up for Ian Pratt and Jim Kibler gun making class at Cantor Cave 4-H camp. You won't regret it. Ian knows southern rifles as good as anyone and Jim knows a lot about gun making. Both are fantastic teachers with lots of skills.