Is Schuetzen FFFg for flintlocks?

[BartSr]

I ran out of Goex FFFg and tried some Schuetzen FFFg today.  Is this powder OK for main charge use in .45 cal flintlocks?
Newbie here as you can tell.

Paul

[PPatch]

Yes. The Schuetzen may place the ball differently however, so it would be good to do some testing to see where it shoots relative to the Goex you are use to. You may have to adjust your powder load.

It is good that you chose to ask when you had doubt, rather than just go for it.

dave

[smallpatch]

Bart,

In a word.....yes.  Some load work up should be done, but you'll find it's very close to Goex.  Maybe a tad hotter and cleaner.  You may not notice a bit of difference.

[Daryl]

Paul  it will work just fine.  I worked up loads with both 3F GOEX and 2F GOEX in both m .45 and .40 rifles.  I recorded the results so that if I ran out of one of the grades of powder, I'd probably have the other on hand.  I found in both of these rifles, that 10gr. MORE 2f was needed to achieve the same groups and velocity as 3F.  Now that I also have 1 1/2 Swiss, I need to test that as well.
If I was able to buy any other powders, I'd do likewise, just to have that option if the situation arose.

[BartSr]

Daryl,

I have been using Scheutzen (sp?) FFFg in my kit T/C .45 flinter.  Seems to work fine but gives challenges with it's patent breech.

Thanks,
Paul

[Don Steele]

Paul,
I'm curious about your comment regarding "challenges" you are experiencing due to patent breeches.
My experience has been just the opposite. Flat breech rifles have given me more "issues" than the ones I have enjoyed with "patent breeches".
Can you expand on that...
Thanks,
Don
 

[smallpatch]

Don, I'm curious.  What possible problems could you have with a flat breech?  Patents have all kinds of issues, just because of restrictions, and passages.  Hard to clean, etc.
I guess I'm just talking flint locks though .

[bob in the woods]

Two different sized cleaning tools in order to effectively clean out the " restricted , less than bore sized ' patent breach is just the beginning of why I hate these things. On a humid summer day here, I can predict which guns will start miss firing on the line after a few rounds. Give me a nicely polished flat faced breach any day.

[T*O*F]

Give me a nicely polished flat faced breach any day.

Few people actually take the time to polish and radius a patent breech which is why they clog so often.  This is especially true of factory guns where the breech is installed as cast.  The fouling cokes up in all the irregularities until it builds up enough to block the flash hole.  Add that to the fact that you are shoving all the fouling down into the powder channel of the breech every time you load it.
 

 
 
 

[BartSr]

Give me a nicely polished flat faced breach any day.

Few people actually take the time to polish and radius a patent breech which is why they clog so often.  This is especially true of factory guns where the breech is installed as cast.  The fouling cokes up in all the irregularities until it builds up enough to block the flash hole.  Add that to the fact that you are shoving all the fouling down into the powder channel of the breech every time you load it.

Yup, my thoughts exactly.  Mine is a .45 T/C flinter.    I use a .30 cal brass brush to clean out the patent breech, drop it down, rotate it clockwise, take it out, flip the rifle over and out drops enough litter to keep it from firing next load.  So I clean out every shot like that much to the dismay of the AZ Usery range officers.  I would love to "remove" that type of breech but for now I'm learning how to use it and it's my first flinter. 

BartSr

[Daryl]

Paul- if you remove the barrel (easy to do with hooked breech) dunk the breech end in a container of water and flush the water into and out of the barrel with a tight patch on a jag, the breech area will be cleaned spotlessly. I use water from the cold water tap. Works perfectly. I have patent breeches and flat faced breeches and I see no difference in shooting or misfires - none in either- unless I have forgotten powder, which has happened.
While shooting, there is never a need to wipe the bore, so we are not pushing fouling down into that area.

[bgf]

My chunk gun is flint with patent breech and never a problem.  Sometimes the caplocks start getting clogged up before it does.  Only thing I did to it was radius and polish the top of the chamber.  Clean in a bucket of water.

Schuetzen is often way under Goex velocity and I had all sorts of problems with it fouling up my flat breech .50 in hot, humid conditions.  It will foul a touchhole like nothing else!

PS. I wipe the bore during chunk matches, too, and that doesn't seem to cause any problem.

[Don Steele]

Don, I'm curious.  What possible problems could you have with a flat breech?  Patents have all kinds of issues, just because of restrictions, and passages.  Hard to clean, etc.
I guess I'm just talking flint locks though .

Smallpatch,
I suppose I've been lucky with my T/C patent breeched rifles. Ever since getting the first one 40 yrs ago, I've been doing just like Daryl said..pull the barrel, put one end in a container of water and flush the whole thing out end-to-end. Easy, and never had an ignition problem over all that time, and a LOT of shooting.
OTOH: My first experience with a flat breech rifle was with a Jack Garner flintlock. I  will admit at this point in the conversation that the problems were most definitely the result of my own ignorance, which has been addressed over the years. I'm much better now. In short, I was wiping between shots with a jag/patch combination that was a bit too large. As a result, I was pushing everything that was in the barrel down the bore to rest on the breechface before pouring in the next powder charge. That's the process which had worked on my T/C's, and there wasn't anyone around to tell me any better, so off I went..and it wasn't long before I was having all kinds of ignition "issues". 
Other folks experience may differ...this has been mine. Always willing to learn.

[hanshi]

I've owned, fired and hunted with numerous patent breech rifles as well as many with a flat breech.  While I prefer a flat breech, I have never, ever had a problem caused by a patent breech.  I would not reject, criticize or belabor a rifle with a PB any more than I would one with a flat breech.  They are quite interchangeable, IMHO, as far as reliability and care are concerned. 

[BartSr]

Todays Range Report Results:  25 yds (no laughing here plz), 50gr of Goex FFFg, blue tick patches, .440 home-poured RB's.


Shot once each target then went back to the upper right and added four more (far left and then three together).
I think I'm getting it, possibly.

Jumping for joy, 
Paul

[Daryl]

Paul - keep at it and you will soon should be able to keep them all in the X ring at that range.
A further increase in powder will be needed if you intend to have similar accuracy at 50yards. Yes - the rifle will do it - if you load it appropriately.