Pill Locks, third try

[JCKelly]

 I have been admonished that there are a couple of kinds of percussion firearm which I may not reference on this site. So, I am trying a third time to get this question posted.

Any of you gentlemen have a pill lock rifle or pistol, and know where it was made?

I am curious about whether there was one location, or perhaps several, where the detonating pill was used a bit, in competition with the copper cap.

An associate of mine has a nice little half-stock pill lock rifle made in Albion, New York State. I have a small (attributed) pill lock pistol pistol by the same maker, W. Raymond.

Billinghurst, in Rochester, NY, made rifles using pill-lock ignition. Somewhere I thought I read about a bear hunter feeling secure with his Billinghurst, pills sealed with beeswax.

If the stars permit me to sell a few items I might see if the owner of that Raymond rifle cares to part with it. He also has small pistol like mine, marked Raymond pistol like mine, hammer looks kinda funny like someone converted it from pill to cap.

Anyway these things were apparently made in the 1820's. They get only scant mention in most gun books.

So, TC, did I say it right this time?

[JTR]

Probably no help, but I know of an original Jacob Dickert flintlock rifle that was converted to a pill lock. Obviously, the rifle was made in Lancaster, and probably used in that area as well.
John

[JCKelly]

Thanks, JTR. It is confirmation of something I read recently about a maker of pill lock rifles in Eastern Pennsylvania. Naturally, I did not write down the reference, but I am now.

So far the only two which I've clever enough to record are in Rochester and in Albion (about 30-40 miles west of R)

So far my experiences here have inspired me to look more closely at pill locks. Vaguely recall someone from Wisconsin, who collected unmentionable percussion rifles, at least one of which I put in my book on Michigan rifles. Meby they wanna sell now. Or not.

[Don Stith]

I have owned a couple of St Louis made shotguns that used pill locks converted to percussion. Why is that discussion not allowed on the forum?. Before I learned what they were, I thought they were a percussion hammer with replaceable nose.  Looked ingenious.

[OLUT]

Third try also... Joseph Medbery Jr. patented a crude mule ear lock (compared to E. Gilbert's design of 1829). Several Medbery, Rochester,NY pill lock mule ears (using his patent lock of 16 June 1826 #4473) survive. Billinghurst apprenticed to Medbery, as probably did Ephraim Gilbert. In any case, all three made pill lock rifles in the Rochester area

[JCKelly]

Don S - this forum does not accept discussion of either under-hammer or revolving cylinder percussion guns. I learned that slowly, as is my wont.

[realtorone]

Is there something in writing that says what can and cannot be the subject of a post?

George

[JTR]

The Mission Statement, as has been pointed out to me a few times; http://americanlongrifles.org/?action=recent

John 

[Steve Collward]

Gunmaker Stillman Jackson, Palmyra, N.Y. (about 20 miles east of Rochester) ran an ad in the Wayne Sentinel, Aug. 21, 1829 which reads in part, "... He will keep on hand Percussion and Flint Rifles, muskets....; He will also keep Percussion Caps and Pills of the best quality..."
  I have also seen a full stock rifle by William Gardner, Geneva, N.Y. (about 35 miles south east of Rochester) that appears to have been converted from pill lock to percussion.

[Don Stith]

The pill locks I have encountered are a side lock ignition system on a muzzleloading gun.They were no further removed from an American Long Rifle than my beloved Hawken rifles which are often discussed on this site
 I don't know what our moderators think a pill lock is.
 

[rich pierce]

Don, I think there is a simple misunderstanding here.  No problem with pill locks.  The original post had underhammers or revolvers in it and THAT was the problem, not discussion of pill locks, which is not outside our interests.

[oakridge]

Simple. The hammer can slap the top or the side, but NOT the bottom. Don't ask me why. May be the appearance. They just don't look like a longrifle.

[gibster]

Here is a link to a southern made pill lock in the library.
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=2817.0

[Frank Graves]

Here is the William Gardner pill lock half stock rifle that is in the Virtual Museum:

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=1f50c3ec96abb882d9d5a740c4d2d4f0&topic=34484.0

Frank

[JCKelly]

Thanks.

I've a good start now on a little pamphlet on pill locks. I did not realize they were so broadly made in the US, as to include Pennsylvania, St Louis and somewhere in the South. Recently I got an old ad for used Austrian pill lock muskets, though they seem to be a bit casual, mixing up the term tube lock with pill lock. The only pill locks I had known of previously were New York guns.

[OLUT]

This ignition system was undoubtedly too early for any of your gunmakers in Michigan to use...... If you are putting together a pamphlet, there is good source info on pill locks in Winant's "Early Percussion Firearms". I'm sure that you've seen the material in Swinney's books on New York State , including the containers of ignition pills illustrated under Billinghurst.

[JCKelly]

OLUT, in my book there is one pill-lock Claudius H. Beach with a mule-ear lock. I got it from The Gun Report, January 1957, page 34, article by William H. Dean of Wilcox, Pennsylvania.

Next project is to go through Swinney page by page. Have photos of a Miller pill-lock revolving rifle sold by Collectors Firearms. Two brothers worked in that Rochester, NY shop with Billinghurst. One spelled his name with an "a" later on. It was James Millar to patented the revolving rifle June 11, 1829. In spite of the Patent Office fire. James Millar kept his own copy of the patent & brought it to Michigan. Was kept by descendants, along with one of his rifles. Ray Russell, of Rochester, Michigan, reprinted several copies. I took poor photos of one at Mansfield, OH, & did my best to approximate the type faces used in my book.

I had forgotten about Winant, book is I believe in the basement "branch" of my library. Thanks for letting me know it is a reference here, I haven't looked at that book for years.

[ratfacedmcdougal]

Please excuse my ignorance, but what was the pill?
Thanks
RFMcD

[JCKelly]

The pill was a detonating compound, like that in a percussion cap, but made into a round ball roughly the size of a BB  One recipe was 2 parts charcoal, 2 parts sulfur and 5 parts potassium chlorate. Grind together wet!! with a little gum arabic added. One way or other, form into small pills. Sometimes after they dried pills might be varnished.  I believe earlier pills may have included mercury fulminate.

The most complete discussion is given in Early Percussion Firearms,  Lewis Winant 1959.

The gun would have a small dished-out area around the vent. Put the pill there, then smear it with tallow and/or beeswax to waterproof it & hold it in place.

One advantage over copper caps is that no fragments of copper flew around to put out eyes.