Frizzen Troubles

[QuanLoi]

I recently built a gun around a lock that I'm having trouble with.  The lock has a roller spring tensioning the frizzen.  With a fresh, sharp flint I can only get a weak spark.  The flint, if I'm lucky, will only be good for about 10-15 shots before I need to knapp... and then only about 5 shots after that.  Also, the flint seems to fracture after only a few shots.  I contacted the manufacturer and was told to return the lock to have the frizzen re-hardened and the frizzen spring re-tensioned.  After the lock was returned to me, I'm experiencing the same problem.

I suspect that the frizzen is too hard... but I may be wrong.  I have built several guns using L&R locks and Siler locks of unknown origin and have never had this problem.

Any suggestions?

[L Moler]

The cam is to big and to far forward..  I had that problem recently on a Rifle Shoppe lock.  I just carefully ground down the cam and changed the angle slightly..  Going very slowly and trying it real often.

[rich pierce]

Very hard to diagnose by description. Somebody needs to have the lock in hand to diagnose.  I would be surprised if a frizzen was too hard.  I get good sparks for starting fires with flint and steel using a safe edge of a file.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I have a Davis Twigg lock that produced a pitiful spark.  So I took it to Dixon's Fair in '09, knowing Tim from RE Davis would be there.  He agreed that the mainspring was too weak and installed a new one from his display lock right on the spot...no charge.

I was still not happy with the spark, so I sent the lock to Bob Roller on his advice, and he replaced the guts with his late English parts.  Lock is snappier but still a pathetic spark, especially for this big lock.  I tried several times to re-harden and temper the frizzen, having had a long history of personal success to this end.  But without significant improvement.

So I packaged up the lock and sent it to Larry Zorne at Mold and Gun Shop....all this from North Central British Columbia....when he received the lock, he said he'd replace the frizzen ON WARRANTY!!!!!  It isn't even one of his locks!

I received my old girl back the other day, and she now sparks like a cutting torch.  Now I'm happy.  And super impressed with the service I received from everyone who had a hand in this locks make-over.

[Bob Roller]

I have a Davis Twigg lock that produced a pitiful spark.  So I took it to Dixon's Fair in '09, knowing Tim from RE Davis would be there.  He agreed that the mainspring was too weak and installed a new one from his display lock right on the spot...no charge.

I was still not happy with the spark, so I sent the lock to Bob Roller on his advice, and he replaced the guts with his late English parts.  Lock is snappier but still a pathetic spark, especially for this big lock.  I tried several times to re-harden and temper the frizzen, having had a long history of personal success to this end.  But without significant improvement.

So I packaged up the lock and sent it to Larry Zorne at Mold and Gun Shop....all this from North Central British Columbia....when he received the lock, he said he'd replace the frizzen ON WARRANTY!!!!!  It isn't even one of his locks!

I received my old girl back the other day, and she now sparks like a cutting torch.  Now I'm happy.  And super impressed with the service I received from everyone who had a hand in this locks make-over.

Taylor,
I don't remember remaking one of those locks for you but then I can't remember what I had for breakfast yesterday. It must have had a poor quality frizzen that was case hardened to begin with and then after
cutting thru the case,it stopped firing right..
Larry Zornes or one of his employees assembled that lock for Davis to begin with and they should have caught the first mainspring problem. A lot of them have feeble mainsprings but I have one now to remake that has a very strong mainspring,strong to the point where it might pull the link in half.

Bob Roller

[Pete G.]

If the flint is fracturing after only a few shots you might be experiencing frizzen rebound. This is where the frizzen bounces back far enough to impact the top of the flint and cause it to shatter.

[Hungry Horse]

 I suspect the frizzen is rebounding as well. If the frizzen looks polished where the flint makes contact, with almost no ribbing cut into it from the flint, it might be too hard. It doesn't happen often, but some types of steel will get very hard. The fix for a over hardened frizzen is an hour in the wife oven at 400 degrees.

             Hungry Horse

[Bob Roller]

I suspect the frizzen is rebounding as well. If the frizzen looks polished where the flint makes contact, with almost no ribbing cut into it from the flint, it might be too hard. It doesn't happen often, but some types of steel will get very hard. The fix for a over hardened frizzen is an hour in the wife oven at 400 degrees.

             Hungry Horse

Good idea and you can anneal a meat loaf while you're doing that and get double duty from the
cooking stove.

Bob Roller

[rich pierce]

I suspect the frizzen is rebounding as well. If the frizzen looks polished where the flint makes contact, with almost no ribbing cut into it from the flint, it might be too hard. It doesn't happen often, but some types of steel will get very hard. The fix for a over hardened frizzen is an hour in the wife oven at 400 degrees.

             Hungry Horse

Good idea and you can anneal a meat loaf while you're doing that and get double duty from the
cooking stove.

Bob Roller

Have to be careful because paradoxically if you anneal a meatloaf too long it actually hardens.

[JCKelly]

First, you might want to ignore this as I am no expert at all on how to make a flint lock spark.

Awhile back my Pedersoli trade gun would spark OK about three times, then destroy the flint.

Pete Titran, a more knowledgeable Detroit Sportsmens shooter, suggested I turn my flint bevel side up, rather than my usual bevel side down.
It worked. There is probably a great lock geometry answer for this.
All I can say is you might want to try this simple, if less than ideal, approach before the more complicated & no doubt better ones given above.

[Acer Saccharum]

Quanloi, let me begin by asking what COLOR are the Sparks?


From the answer we can tell if the frizzen is too hard or too soft.

[David R. Pennington]

I have a Davis Twigg lock that produced a pitiful spark. 

I have one of those I've learned to hate. Made two mainsprings for it and finally got it to spark but now the frizzen rebounds and breaks the flint every now and then.

[Captchee]

Quanloi, let me begin by asking what COLOR are the Sparks?
From the answer we can tell if the frizzen is too hard or too soft.

  yep .
 its real hard to know whats wrong with your lock  without seeing it .
But Acer raises a good question that can help to at least address one possibility

[QuanLoi]

Quanloi, let me begin by asking what COLOR are the Sparks?


From the answer we can tell if the frizzen is too hard or too soft.

Interesting that the color of the spark can determine hardness.  Well, the color of the spark appears to be yellow...

[Acer Saccharum]

Yellow sparks: your frizzen is hardened properly. White sparks, too hard; red sparks, frizzen too soft.

Sometimes if the frizz is too soft, the flint will bite in and the flint just stops dead, and/or big flakes of flint break off.

[Acer Saccharum]

I suspect that the frizzen is bouncing back after firing, slamming onto the flint, breaking or fracturing the flint.

Determine first if your frizzen is bouncing back or not. Place some sticky wax or clamp a piece of stiff paper  under the top jaw, on top of the flint, almost up to its cutting edge. When you fire the lock, the heel of the frizzen will mark the paper or mash the wax if it is bouncing back.

Is your frizzen bouncing back?

If not, your mainspring might be too weak, or there could be too much internal lock friction.

[QuanLoi]

Thanks for the replies... I'll have to do a little experimenting with the advise given.  I think the next go-around I'll try a Chambers lock since I've heard so much positive reviews about them.

Thanks again...

Decker

[Acer Saccharum]

QuanLoi, if your sparks are few, the flint breaks up, I suspect your frizzen is rebounding.

I have had a frizzen spring on this same lock that was tempered too much. It bent just a little every time the lock fired, until it was so compressed that the frizzen was loose.

I hardened and retempered, and the lock is now a killer.