Crack in stock of Kentucky Flintlock

[RonC]

I noticed a crack in this custom made flintlock I bought used. Is there anything I need to do to stabilize it in that particular location? Do I leave it alone? The first photo is to show the crack and its location near the cock.



Thanks,
Ron

[okieboy]

 Is it just a photographic illusion or is there a second crack developing to the left of the arrow inside the lock mortise?

[P.W.Berkuta]

I've not seen a crack in that place before --- I'd use some thin CA glue and hope for the best .

[RonC]

Is it just a photographic illusion or is there a second crack developing to the left of the arrow inside the lock mortise?

I think that is just a photographic illusion....I hope.
Ron

[RonC]

I've not seen a crack in that place before --- I'd use some thin CA glue and hope for the best .

How do you inject glue into a small crack like that?
Thank you,
Ron

[EC121]

If you buy super thin CA, it will wick into the crack.  Pull the barrel out and hit it from all sides.

[RonC]

Thank you!

[Squirrel pizza]

The glue on the surface will do very little. If it were me I would drillthrough the crack, at whatever angle you can that gets you closest to perpendicular to the crack. then apply liberal amounts of glue and a dowel that fills the drill hole. If you feel there isn't enough room for a wooden dowel, drill, use a two part apoxy and break the drill bit off inside hole,dremel tool to cut off protruding drill bit. Repeated in a couple places would make strongest fix. You can use a slightly smaller drill bit than the one used to drill hole for sufficient apoxy coverage. A steel pin of some type can be used but I like drill bits because the flutes fill with apoxy and provide a better purchase.

[okieboy]

 Breaking off small drill bits (on purpose) is a new idea to me, and I like it. If doing more than one, they could be ran at slightly different angles for better holding.

[Squirrel pizza]

That's kinda the idea. The crack pictured is at the weakest point of the rifle. The apoxy holds and the drill bits reinforce.  Even sacrificing longer bits with longer flutes to hold the apoxy is cheaper than waiting for that one tough reload or cleaning patch and snap! With some time, patience and steam the crack itself can be made almost invisible. Chinese drill bits from the flea market are no good as drills, but work nicely as splices.

[RonC]

I should have mentioned that it is a Kentucky pistol.

Thanks,
Ron

[Squirrel pizza]

Same theory, just don't drill as deep!

[Collector]

Just for (my) clarification:

1. This crack COMPLETELY terminates along the wall of the inlet and doesn't, in any way, extend into and/or along the bottom/floor of the lock inlet and towards the trigger guard inlet.

2. The stock would be drilled in the area directly behind and immediately above the pan, epoxy injected, followed by the fluted portion of a drill bit and set.

Q1.) Is any attempt made to drill a hole at the 'apparent end' of the crack to 'terminate' it?

Q-2.) Is any attempt made to 'open' the crack to allow the (really thin) epoxy to infiltrate into it?

Q-3.) Do you also put a open, horizontal groove in the bottom of the lock inlet, across the area of the 'crack' and epoxy a fluted section of drill bit?

Q-4.) Do you apply any form of tension to the repair, or just stand on the butt and let gravity do the work?

Thanks!

[Squirrel pizza]

Collector, I'm assuming your questions are to me. First, opening a canal along the path of the crack is not a bad idea, as long as there is enough area to make it practical. I tried that before, and added a bunch of small drill holes,(about a #52) so I could inject Gorilla Glue using a small hyperdermic needle. The Gorilla glue expands as it cures filling all the nooks and crannies. Just don't overdo it, you can always add more. That being said it is not my preferred method as I would rather not remove any more wood that neccissary and you get more bang for the buck by drilling and filling, where entire surface is in contact with adhesive strengthened by the steel of bit/pin. I would rather use a hickory dowel but there comes a point were thinness of dowel negates effectiveness and strength of repair. As to terminus of crack, driving in something like a picture frame clip usually does more damage than good as it will split the wood in a new direction, especially with maple. There are many ways to skin a cat. But this is effective and relatively safe. If the gun was broken in half then clamping of some sort would be needed of course, but not in this instance.

[JCurtiss]

...drill, use a two part apoxy and break the drill bit off inside hole,dremel tool to cut off protruding drill bit. Repeated in a couple places would make strongest fix. You can use a slightly smaller drill bit than the one used to drill hole for sufficient apoxy coverage. A steel pin of some type can be used but I like drill bits because the flutes fill with apoxy and provide a better purchase.

Wow, that sounds like a great idea; thanks for sharing!

Jason

[RonC]

The crack does not extend into the flat area where the tang sits. In fact, the crack doesn't seem to go all the way down into the tang area. If anything, it may go off on an angle toward the front of the pistol, but I really can't see any separation.


Ron

[Squirrel pizza]

The crack will never heal itself, but can always get worse. Like the man says, "you can pay me now or you can pay me later. When maple breaks there are a jillion jagged edges to deal with. That makes it great for re-gluing, but on ounce of prevention...

[louieparker]

Is that where a piece of wood has been glued in during the building process ? LP

[Ed Wenger]

What Louie said...  Does the piece flex and open the crack?  Almost looks like it might have been broken off and glued back on....  If it flexes, and you can get glue in it, I'd try the thin CA glue first, but that's just me.


        Ed

[RonC]

Is that where a piece of wood has been glued in during the building process ? LP

That is not something I considered.
The gun is sitting in parts on my workbench, so I will take a look.
Thanks you,
Ron

[Jerry V Lape]

The use of a drill to reinforce is a new one for me.  I tend to like repairing wood with wood. My preference is for hard wood dowels to add strength across the crack, and would use a relatively large dowel rather than little ones - size being relative to the area you are working.  Lately I have thought about the use of carbon fiber for such strength repairs too.   If you are going to make a horizontal groove across that area on the inside carbon fibers laid in a good two part epoxy - not the hardware store stuff - might be a real strength item.  Clamping something like that is a challenge but is essential to getting a good result.  Figuring out the clamping is sometimes harder than the repair.  On the breech area of high quality shotgun stocks it is often good to use a metal staple for strength across the glued crack and to do the clamping at the same time.  Predrill the holes, make a groove for the cross piece and glue it in.  You have to make your own staple.  Slope the legs gently on the inside surfaces so it pinches as it is pushed into place.  Cut it from a piece of quality steel and file it into shape.   

[Long John]

Ron,

I think Ed and Louie are on the right track.  That does NOT look like a natural crack in the wood such as those that often occur along the grain of the plank.  The direction of the crack is just "wrong" based upon the apparent flow of the wood grain.  I think it is a patch that was glued in early on during the initial construction.  Your second photo shows that the patch has shrunk less than the stock, causing the edge to create a surface discontinuity. 

If the gun stock flexes so that the "crack" opens up then it can be stabilized with some very tin CA glue worked into the crack as it is flexed.  BE CAREFUL WITH THE FLEXING!  I would take a small, drill, perhaps .100" and drill back into the stock, parallel to the lock flat and perpendicular to the crack deep enough to extend the hole across the crack plus 1/8th inch.  I would than make a small maple dowel and glue it into the hole with carpenters' glue.   I, too, repair wood with wood and think that glue stronger than the wood tears wood apart.

Good Luck.

John Cholin

[RonC]

Your comments have been very valuable as well as educational!

There is no flex that I can detect in the piece to the front (toward the barrel) of the crack. If this is a patch, instead of the crack following the direction of the obvious separation on top of the stock, it must go forward at a steep angle once it reaches the interior of the tang area.
Under bright light, it is very difficult to see any separation on the interior portion below the surface crack.

My first inclination is to talk to some folks in the local muzzleloading society I belong to, find a well-respected ML gunsmith, and take it from there. I have a concern that if I try the stabilization myself, doing it for the first time, I may ruin the stock or at least exacerbate the problem. There doesn't seem to be much room for error. My claim in the past that with a hammer, lever and duct tape I can fix anything, may not hold in this case.
With Great Appreciation,
Ron

[Ed Wenger]

Ron, if there's no "flex", i.e., the crack doesn't open to accept CA glue, I'm not so sure it needs "fixing".  Other than the aesthetics, sounds like it's stable?  You could play with trying to hide the crack if it bugs you, which would probably require sanding, matching the stain & some imagination with glazes, etc...  I't would be hard for me to tell without seeing the piece.


            Ed

[Mark Elliott]

I would also vote for thin CA.   It is sucked into the crack by capillary action.    It will run right through the thinnest crack.   If there is a problem with it, that is it.   It is only good for the real thin, tight cracks.    There is no need for any drilling as long as you use thin CA.   You can get various thicknesses from various sources, including WoodCraft.   CA is becoming the primary glue for wood in many areas of application.