Has Pyrodex changed ?

[bob in the woods]

I was given a copy of " The Complete Blackpowder Notebook " by Sam Fadala, and it it he claims that the "new' pyrodex is not a destroyer of barrels, cleaning the same as black powder. Also, it ignites much easier and has been used successfully in flintlocks by some [ without a BP kicker ]
I gave up on this stuff some 20 years ago because of cleaning issues. I was getting dirty patches out of cleaned barrels 2, 3, and 4 days after successive cleaning sessions. My friend still uses Pyrodex in his flinter , loading 5 grains of 3F first, then the charge of RS. 
I just wondered if anyone here has noticed differences in older vs newer Pyrodex ?

[Ky-Flinter]

Hi Bob,

When was your book published?  The "new" Pyrodex Sam is talking about may, in fact, be the old Pyrodex.

-Ron

[Hungry Horse]

My suggestion is forget Pyrodex, and Sam Fadala. Both are a poor substitute for the read deal, IMO.

       Hungry Horse

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Yup!

[J Henry]

  Bob I burn Pyrodex and always have,,cleaned properly you should have no problems,,I have one of Sams book to ,,old but a good read and gives you a chance to see what was and what is,,,'Expert" advice.. lots of that around in those days,,,not much has changed!!
  Shoot'em/ clean'em

[bob in the woods]

The book is published in 2006.  As I said, my last experience  many years ago with Pyrodex was less than pleasant.

[Daryl]

Yup!

YUP!

[Gene Carrell]

Pyrodex must be compressed to be consistent. No advantages over good old black powder and several disadvantages.

[SCLoyalist]

Back around '80 or '81 Pyrodex was touted as non-corrosive, non-fouling.   Shoot all day without cleaning, wait a couple of days to clean with no problems.   Even if it was true at first,  a fire and explosion at the plant did significant damage to the facilities and killed one of the co-inventors of Pyrodex, and afterward the formula was changed some to make manufacturing safer.   Shortly after that, I remember hearing reports that Pyrodex really was corrosive and you needed to be extra careful with respect to cleanup.

At least, that's how I've heard the story told 'round the campfire.

[oldtravler61]

Always used Goex . Never did like the modern stuff. But then I'm old.

[stuart cee dub]

Pyrodex needs a hotter cap to set it off especially as the temperature goes down.
There is a reason that 209 shotgun caps are de-rigor for in-lines using the compressed pellets .The shipping is less problematic for store front powder resellers with pyrodex and the attending storage issues. In-lines are essentially an engineered solution to current hunting and shipping regulations. And I mean no criticism of in-line shooters or their enthusiasms. 

Sounds like most of us made the journey to the darkside long ago.
I started shooting flint this year,so pyrodex is not even an option, reformulated or not .A pan of 4f will not light it off and I'll not play with duplex charges .
No going back from Dante's ninth circle for so many of us on the lunatic fringe     

[Bob Roller]

Pyrodex needs a hotter cap to set it off especially as the temperature goes down.
There is a reason that 209 shotgun caps are de-rigor for in-lines using the compressed pellets .The shipping is less problematic for store front powder resellers with pyrodex and the attending storage issues. In-lines are essentially an engineered solution to current hunting and shipping regulations. And I mean no criticism of in-line shooters or their enthusiasms. 

Sounds like most of us made the journey to the darkside long ago.
I started shooting flint this year,so pyrodex is not even an option, reformulated or not .A pan of 4f will not light it off and I'll not play with duplex charges .
No going back from Dante's ninth circle for so many of us on the lunatic fringe     

The lunatic fringe. Love it.I been there since 1951 abut then I've always been crazy
but it kept me from going insane or so says a song from Waylon Jennings.

Bob Roller

[bgf]

Pyrodex needs a hotter cap to set it off especially as the temperature goes down.
There is a reason that 209 shotgun caps are de-rigor for in-lines using the compressed pellets .The shipping is less problematic for store front powder resellers with pyrodex and the attending storage issues. In-lines are essentially an engineered solution to current hunting and shipping regulations. And I mean no criticism of in-line shooters or their enthusiasms. 

Sounds like most of us made the journey to the darkside long ago.
I started shooting flint this year,so pyrodex is not even an option, reformulated or not .A pan of 4f will not light it off and I'll not play with duplex charges .
No going back from Dante's ninth circle for so many of us on the lunatic fringe     

Very true about the hotter cap.  I've solved ignition problems for people shooting caplocks and pyrodex that way several times.  Magnum #11 are usually all it takes, and  I still have a couple of tins in my box, though I rarely shoot a caplocks anymore.

One day at the normal, i.e. not ML, range, there was a guy with a T/C firestorm flintlock.  He was shooting pyrodex or some other substitute and it was going off, albeit SLOWLY!  I asked him if I could try some of my Goex 3F, and it went off really well.  What's my point?  I don't know, except that I was impressed the design  ignited substitute consistently and worked very well with real BP... 

[crankshaft]

      I was given 5lbs.  of Pyrodex and 2 of  777 by several different people.   Some old, some newer.   I haven't had any issues with the old or new P,
(in percussion) , and yes, sometimes it does appear to go off slower than BP but I intend to shoot it all up plinkin' around. 
 P shoots cleaner.   

[Linoww]

    I was given 5lbs.  of Pyrodex and 2 of  777 by several different people.   Some old, some newer.   I haven't had any issues with the old or new P,
(in percussion) , and yes, sometimes it does appear to go off slower than BP but I intend to shoot it all up plinkin' around.  
 P shoots cleaner.  

I shoot triple 7 fff  in a 50 caliber cap lock with patched ball and find it to work pretty well. I shoot it in the morning before work because I do not want to go in smelling like sulfur. The load is good enough to shoot inch and a half and under 50 yards often which is more than good enough for plinkin.

[bigsmoke]

I have never been too excited about Pyrodex, there always seems to be a delay in ignition speeds.
Case in point was with my 8 bore double.  Shooting Fg or Ffg, the delay was non-existent.  With Pyrodex Select, using musket caps, it was always a Bang-Boom situation.

On the other hand, the Goex Ffg gave 1,525 fps velocities and an equal measure of Select bumped it up to 1,610.  

Never did understand that, as I was under the belief that Pyrodex was slower than black when all things were equal.  I asked the Hodgdon people about that and they said I was the only person crazy enough to shoot 8 bores that they knew.  Oh well, so much for that.

John

[Mike Brooks]

I used Pyroducks in two old shotguns that had lightly pitted barrels. They now have heavily pitted barrels. Once that $#@* gets in your pits it keeps on eatin'.

[Dphariss]

Back around '80 or '81 Pyrodex was touted as non-corrosive, non-fouling.   Shoot all day without cleaning, wait a couple of days to clean with no problems.   Even if it was true at first,  a fire and explosion at the plant did significant damage to the facilities and killed one of the co-inventors of Pyrodex, and afterward the formula was changed some to make manufacturing safer.   Shortly after that, I remember hearing reports that Pyrodex really was corrosive and you needed to be extra careful with respect to cleanup.

At least, that's how I've heard the story told 'round the campfire.

The formula was not changed and it was never non-corrosive and a lot of guns were damaged by people believing gun magazines.
Dan

[Gun_Nut_73]

Unfortunately, some of us don't have much choice.  There is no local (there and back within 8 hours drive) supplier of BP.  As a result, I am forced to either use Pyrodex or Triple 7.  I use Pyrodex in my sub .45 cal. rifles, and Triple 7 in my .50 cal plus rifle.

FWIW, the NMLRA put a notice in the December issue of Muzzleblasts, stating there would be no public sales of BP at the Nat'l Western Rondevous, and that all BP orders needed to be pre-ordered and limited to 25 lbs per person.  If I can get the time off, I may go there and get enough to last me  a few months.

[Mike Brooks]

Unfortunately, some of us don't have much choice.  There is no local (there and back within 8 hours drive) supplier of BP.  As a result, I am forced to either use Pyrodex or Triple 7.  I use Pyrodex in my sub .45 cal. rifles, and Triple 7 in my .50 cal plus rifle.

FWIW, the NMLRA put a notice in the December issue of Muzzleblasts, stating there would be no public sales of BP at the Nat'l Western Rondevous, and that all BP orders needed to be pre-ordered and limited to 25 lbs per person.  If I can get the time off, I may go there and get enough to last me  a few months.

I have BP shipped right to my door. I never have drove anywhere to get it.

[Bob Roller]

Unfortunately, some of us don't have much choice.  There is no local (there and back within 8 hours drive) supplier of BP.  As a result, I am forced to either use Pyrodex or Triple 7.  I use Pyrodex in my sub .45 cal. rifles, and Triple 7 in my .50 cal plus rifle.

FWIW, the NMLRA put a notice in the December issue of Muzzleblasts, stating there would be no public sales of BP at the Nat'l Western Rondevous, and that all BP orders needed to be pre-ordered and limited to 25 lbs per person.  If I can get the time off, I may go there and get enough to last me  a few months.

I have BP shipped right to my door. I never have drove anywhere to get it.

I've never had any Pyrodex but still have Black Powder that I got from Wes Kindig in 1969 and a can of 4fg from E.M.Farris that is even older.

Bob Roller

[Old Ford2]

Hi Guys,
Has Prodex changed? No, it still is junk! And Sam has rode off into the sunset ( on his electric scooter ) selling his inlines, on the shopping channel.
I enjoy shooting Pyrodex in revolvers as I can shoot as much as I want without the cylinder binding up while shooting.
But in general it is a pain in the butt, AND you have to clean the gun immediately, as you would with black powder.
In the USA you can get REAL black powder if you look. Price, well that is another story.
However, I still have some Dupont  black powder in original cans, I bought this stuff in the 70's and it is still good.
That Dupont STILL works great in my klatchlocks.
Pyrodex would be a solid ball in the can, that won't come out.
That is my rant for the day!
Fred

[WadePatton]

Unfortunately, some of us don't have much choice.  There is no local (there and back within 8 hours drive) supplier of BP.  As a result, I am forced to either use Pyrodex or Triple 7...

If you live in the US, you have more than one choice of companies who will ship it to you and they have better selections than you might find at any local distributor, as well as better prices if you buy a few pounds.  Save up and stock up.  I'm yet on my first shipment.

I ruined some bbls with pyroetchx some years ago. After learning how and why that happened from the metallurgists and chemists here at ALR and dismissing all the hoghooie that sells the stuff, I poured the rest (of the perchlorated powders) onto the ground and burned it.  

Never again.


And I'm torn over attempting to Ebay Sam's book or just throw it into the woodstove to avoid fueling any further confusion amongst BP shooters.  I will NOT give it to a friend. 

[smylee grouch]

Gun Nut, if you plan on going out to Ben Avery Range during the NMLRA Western National Shoot to buy powder you should be advised that it needs to be pre-ordered if I'm not mistaken. I don't think you can gust go out there and buy some as you would over the counter. There are however several distributor's who advertise in Muzzle Blasts and Muzzleloader who can ship it right to your door in most cases.

[Gun_Nut_73]

Gun Nut, if you plan on going out to Ben Avery Range during the NMLRA Western National Shoot to buy powder you should be advised that it needs to be pre-ordered if I'm not mistaken. I don't think you can gust go out there and buy some as you would over the counter. There are however several distributor's who advertise in Muzzle Blasts and Muzzleloader who can ship it right to your door in most cases.

You are correct, and I thought I mentioned that in my last paragraph.  But the Ben Avery range is a day and a half drive each way, plus the time spent there.

I know I could order for delivery, but the hazmat fees make that uneconomical for less than a 25 lb. order.  When you plan to shoot the coming weekend, and your powder horn is empty, you use what you can find.